what on earth did i do to my puffer tank

mattbeau

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Sorry this is long but its complicated.


Ok this is what I did and this is what happened,

I’ve been reading that puffers will enjoy smaller granual substrate dark if possible like sand or slightly larger.

The LFS run-
I picked up some “black beauty” a black shiny granule gravel about the size of 1mm diameter or less. The puffer was eating brine shrimp but not a lot, was trying to eat the snails but only seemed to bug them more than anything else so I was going to try frozen bloodworms.

The move-
Moved the puffer to the community tank, stats are all the same for both tanks-

Nitrates 20
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0
Ph 7-7.2
Temp 80

Every thing should be fine since he would only be there a short while.

The gravel change-
1. I siphoned all the water from the puffers tank into a 5 gallon bucket
2. I took all the old gravel and moved that to a pot
3. I poured out the remaining water (1 gallon) from the tank into the sink
4. I put the new gravel into the tank,
5. I filled the tank completely with water
6. I siphoned all that water back out into the sink, I did this twice.
7. I Poured the old water back into the tank
8. Add the normal additives during water change, amqual plus and novaqua
9. In the process I also damaged his water heater, I move the communities water heater over to the puffer’s tank since his is smaller and would run the risk of dropping temp faster.
10. I put some of the old gravel into the filter media, waited about an hour for water to clear and watched the puffer, who seemed pretty mad.
11. Put the puffer back into the tank. And tried to feed him the new blood worms.

He basically ignored me and what I was doing, I figured he was still pouty since he was sitting on the bottom, I figured ok he just needs to cool off and get to know the new gravel. Turn his light off and let him be.

Check him in the morning and he’s sitting in the gravel in a different spot, it was early so I figure he’s sleeping, his fins were still fluttering about though.


Today’s LFS run

Pick up 3 batches of plants, an air pump an air stone, a new heater and a master test kit (the mardel kits start costing a lot as much as I use them.

I return home, Look in the puffer tank and what do you know he’s dead, no sign of infection, or parasites, not all puffed up or anything, just lying on his side

Check the water with new kit

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0.25
Nitrates 5
Temp- 80
PH 6.0 (weird), Community tank is still 7 with new test kit. Tap water is also 7

Also all the snails are dead that were in there, not by the puffer, just folded up in there shell

What on earth did I do to drop the ph so fast? Can black beauty do this? A web search shows:

“Black Beauty is another affordable sand used for sand-blasting and is sold at home supply/hardware outlets. It’s not really sand but powdered iron slag. It can be quite sharp so it’s not recommended for fish that sift a lot of sand such as Tanganyikan sandsifters. Furthermore, these very fine particles contain iron, which means they are not inert.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php
 
1) a lot of puffer species are quite sensitive to traces of ammonia/nitrite

2) since the sand is not an actual aquarium substrate but an industrial building material, there's a very high likelihood that some toxic chemical(s) were present

that's so rough man; i'd just be completely torn to bits if that happened to mine. that just totally bites. i don't do this often but :rip:
 
Did the tank have a filter at all? Do you know about cycling tanks? The nitrites suggest the tank was cycling if the tank was new and as before mentioned puffers are particualy sensitive to such toxins which are lethal to any fish.
 
Tokis-Phoenix said:
Did the tank have a filter at all? Do you know about cycling tanks?
[snapback]855069[/snapback]​

Its an eclipse 6 with a bio power filter, the tank was cycled, . I cloned my main tank bacteria. cycled it with a feeder goldfish for 2 weeks.
As i had previously steted before with the old gravel tank had o ammonia, 0 nitrites and 20 nitrates. ths i would say is ideal.

This morning i spent about 1.5 hours rinsing the gravel,


now reading ph at tap, 7, ph in tank 6.6 only after having the water in the tank for about 2 hours. when i get home im going to take another reading if its back at 6 im going back to the lfs and ask them more about "black beauty"


0.25 nitrites should still be ok for a fish, even a puffer, 1 part nitrite per 4 million

I expected the tank to maybe rise a little in nitrites by removing the gravel and throwing the 75% of the old water back in.



BTW, it seems the snails are ok, i plopped them back into the main tankand they seem to be ok.
 
mattbeau said:
0.25 nitrites should still be ok for a fish, even a puffer, 1 part nitrite per 4 million

[snapback]855220[/snapback]​

0.25 is a toxic level. Puffers in general can not tolerate ANY levels of nitrites or ammonia what so ever.
 
Paul_MTS said:
mattbeau said:
0.25 nitrites should still be ok for a fish, even a puffer, 1 part nitrite per 4 million

[snapback]855220[/snapback]​

0.25 is a toxic level. Puffers in general can not tolerate ANY levels of nitrites or ammonia what so ever.
[snapback]855345[/snapback]​

Thank you all for helping me with this one

I know I don't know alot, this is why Im here


0.25, zero point two five??? exposure for 18 (or less) hours to this snuffed him out??


if thats the case we can't go to the lfs to get our water tested (they generally use mardel test strips) and we cant use the mardel test strips because they only begin to register at 0.5 zero point five, which accoring to mardel is still acceptable(though not great). but 0.25 is deadly so if we cant read 0.25 how would we know if it never registers on a mardel test strip

for everyone using mardel test strips death could be knocking

Before i blame this on a small nitrite increase (after he had been dead for who knows how long that day) compared to a large PH drop, I want to get this straight

I know in the end it was my doing because I probably should have had a better plan to change the gravel. but I want to know how it was my doing so i dont do it again,

btw after doing subsequent tests I cant get a conclusive test on the ph level. some times it 6 some times its 7 maybe im using the test kit wrong, (fresh water master kit by aquarium pharmacuticles. ) add 3 drops and shake


The following test were run in a 15 minute period
PH 7 (wierd)
test again
PH 6 (hmm
test again
PH 6.6
move substrate around
PH 6
test agian
PH 7
take reading from surface water
PH 7
take reading from lower water
PH 7
Take reading with different test tube
PH 6.6
test as im writing this
PH 6.8

I think im lost now... :(
 
i dont know any thing about this but for youre readings...if ur using stips then that probly y u have gotten dif readings

edit: i may be wrong but maybe u could average the readings and get a general idea of what it is
 
fish_keeper2 said:
i dont know any thing about this but for youre readings...if ur using stips then that probly y u have gotten dif readings

edit: i may be wrong but maybe u could average the readings and get a general idea of what it is
[snapback]855727[/snapback]​


I used to use strips but there expensive so i picked up a master kit which i thought was better but i dont know.


currently using the master kit for all the test's i did
 
oh ok....well im stumped....i just go to my lfs for tests since they know more than i do and its free....hopefully the others can figure it out
 
Ah ha I found the culprit of my inaccurate results

ShAkY HaNds

I did 4 tests in a row making absolutely sure my hands would be still and each drop was the same

The PH is

drum roll

6.8 six point eight 4 times consequtivly :D

ok so gravel is out of the question so it was either, bad diet stress or 0.25 nitrate, possibly.

Im leaning towords stress


now all i have to do is make sure my bacteria isnt completely dead at this point



Thank you all for your help

I was the culprate in this case I know now and my bad for not properly reading the PH correctly

recycling tank main nitrate bacteria lived nitrite bacter apears maybe
ammonia zero, nitrite 0.25

now what to do with a small "lunchbox" worth of frozen brine shrimp, a bag of frozen blood worm and a soon to be snail infestation in the community tank

The neons would love the brine shrimp but everyone else in the community is more interested in flakes or pellets

and it would take me probably 5 years to go through all the brine shrimp with 5 neons

again thanks
 
Big bummer, Mattbeau. It was way over my head, but I understand frustration and loss of control. Sorry
 
Actually, seeing as you moved the puffer quite a bit there ... can I ask how you moved it?

Puffers are not to be taken out of the water at any time, if you used a net (or the lfs did) chances are that he swallowed some air, which can easily become fatal for them.
 
um with a net.... how else would i move him?

LFS also uses net, should i let them know not to.
 
Please let them know not to ... puffers should not be taken out of water at any time at all. Even when moving them (so only for a couple of secs) there's a chance of them inhaling air. I'm not sure how it's deadly to them (ask SirMinion) but I know it is and that many puffers die because of this ... it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the cause was here as well.

The way you move them, can be with a net ... but make sure you got a cup in the tank at the moment as well, so you can move the net (underwater) into the cup and then take the puffer out of the tank, in the water that's in the cup.

LFS really should have known that :/ Please do let them know :)
I'll PM SirMinion and see if he can explain exactly what causes the puffer to die when swallowing air.
 

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