What constitutes meaningful tank aggression?

gwand · Nov 2, 2024

Up until recently I’ve only maintained peaceful community tanks. Now I have my first African cichlid tank. In my 60 gallon African tank I have 6 Anomalochromis thomasi(African butterfly cichlids), 6 Alestopetersius caudalis (Yellow tail Congo tetras) and a pair of Pelvicachromis pulcher (Ndonga). The butterfly cichlids will frequently face off and spar throughout the day. The p. pulcher couple chase away and fish that approaches their cave. Is this a normal level of aggression for such a composition of fish or will this level of aggression produce a stressed tank. I don’t want to weaken any ones immune system.

MaloK · Nov 2, 2024

The complexity of the environment is the principal factor. Lots of tall plants in the tank and over hanging or floating ones. Some areas of dense vegetation, driftwood, rocks and caves. subdued lightning if there is no cover, tannin in the water.

One thing your fishes have in common is: They all love shaded, "over planted" submerged and emergent plants with caves and wood.

They are also on the slower water movement side and won't like a washing machine. This could be an element of stress, if there is not enough peaceful areas where they can hide and rest, this can cause increased competition for the best spots.

In a tank like that, I imagine a sand bottom with an off center constituted of a complex of caves leaving flat spaces covered with driftwood loaded of plants attached. The back of the tank filled with plants that cover from bottom to top. And a thick cover of floating plants in a tea like water.

At some point it's not possible to accommodate everyone perfectly. Loll.

gwand · Nov 2, 2024

MaloK said:
The complexity of the environment is the principal factor. Lots of tall plants in the tank and over hanging or floating ones. Some areas of dense vegetation, driftwood, rocks and caves. subdued lightning if there is no cover, tannin in the water.

One thing your fishes have in common is: They all love shaded, "over planted" submerged and emergent plants with caves and wood.

They are also on the slower water movement side and won't like a washing machine. This could be an element of stress, if there is not enough peaceful areas where they can hide and rest, this can cause increased competition for the best spots.

In a tank like that, I imagine a sand bottom with an off center constituted of a complex of caves leaving flat spaces covered with driftwood loaded of plants attached. The back of the tank filled with plants that cover from bottom to top. And a thick cover of floating plants in a tea like water.

At some point it's not possible to accommodate everyone perfectly. Loll.

I have caves for everyone. I have more plants arriving on Tuesday. I have to work on the water flow. I need to slow it down. It’s on the lowest setting but I’ll add a pre filter.

MaloK · Nov 2, 2024

If you can bring shade, You won regret it.

GaryE · Nov 2, 2024

The water flow doesn't need to slow down. The habitats for the pulcher are brooks, and thomasi can handle what an aquarium offers and more. As long as they can get out of the current somewhere, they're good.

You are describing normal riverine aggression. If you had mbuna, it would be mayhem, but sparring is a way of life for Cichlids. As long as:
- no one is heading for a top corner;
- no one has chunks of fins missing;
- no one has flank or mouth wounds,
then they're just talking things over in their own language.

Some tricks? Each cave should look out to nothing much. A large rock placed near the entrance of a Pelvicachromis cave so that it blocks the view down the tank is ideal. They own what they can see, so obstruct the views. Plants can do it, but many tend to stalkiness down low and don't provide a barrier.

A thomasi come from slow moving forest streams, and savannah streams. Bear in mind that a slow stream is way livelier than 99% of home aquariums. If you put your hand in the tank and the water pulls at it and tried to move it, you're at the outer flow rate of slow. The fish are from high oxygen content water, so there is probably water movement nearby, especially considering the water there can be warm.

A friend who collected them said they were in several habitats, and that all were pretty normal, muddy water brooks and streams.

Magnum Man · Nov 2, 2024

In my South American tetra tank, there is so much shade from Pothos vines over the top, that the light is so diffused, there are no shadows, it makes it challenging to take pictures, but my understanding, is many of these need a lack of light to reproduce.. and while I’m not specifically trying to get them to breed, I would think, having conditions as such, is ideal for raising them as well…

In my Tilapia aquariums I use some big ( rated at 65 gallons each ) sponge filters… at minimum I put one in each back corner… I’ve also used my Tidal filters , which you can turn the flow down, to actually suck up fish waste, to get it out of the aquarium… but it’s amazing how well those large sponge filters, keep the water in good condition

gwand · Nov 2, 2024

GaryE said:
The water flow doesn't need to slow down. The habitats for the pulcher are brooks, and thomasi can handle what an aquarium offers and more. As long as they can get out of the current somewhere, they're good.

You are describing normal riverine aggression. If you had mbuna, it would be mayhem, but sparring is a way of life for Cichlids. As long as:
- no one is heading for a top corner;
- no one has chunks of fins missing;
- no one has flank or mouth wounds,
then they're just talking things over in their own language.

Some tricks? Each cave should look out to nothing much. A large rock placed near the entrance of a Pelvicachromis cave so that it blocks the view down the tank is ideal. They own what they can see, so obstruct the views. Plants can do it, but many tend to stalkiness down low and don't provide a barrier.

A thomasi come from slow moving forest streams, and savannah streams. Bear in mind that a slow stream is way livelier than 99% of home aquariums. If you put your hand in the tank and the water pulls at it and tried to move it, you're at the outer flow rate of slow. The fish are from high oxygen content water, so there is probably water movement nearby, especially considering the water there can be warm.

A friend who collected them said they were in several habitats, and that all were pretty normal, muddy water brooks and streams.

That’s helpful. But what do you mean by “no one is heading for the top corner “

MaloK · Nov 2, 2024

If the fish looks like it wants to escape the tank completely, or want to jump out and physical signs of aggression are witnessed on the fish. The fish is cornered and that is never ending great.

Your filter is strong enough to provide for now and in the future no problem in my mind. Once your plants starts to give some cover, things are going to settle down.

TwoTankAmin · Nov 2, 2024

I would add that many cichlids become super agressinve in spawning mode and especially if they are guarding eggs or their young. Even the most mild mannered chiclids can turn into real beasts when spawning and kids are involved. I am not a big cuclid keeper but have had angels, discus and one of the more nasty African riverine cichlids- P. nichols i. I was given a pair of these at the 2003 OCA weekend. I wanted to observe mouth brooding in action. I subsequently learned that, for one of the smaller cichlids, it was inch for inch one of the nastiest.

The male would not leave the female alone even when she was holding. So I learned to pull him after they spawned. Then she spit the fry and for about a day or two things were great and then she ate them all. So I learned to remove the female after she spit. When I returned them both to the tank, he killed her.

So, when it comes to cichlids, you have to be prepared for fighting at times and it can be serious enough for death to be the result. So, sometimes you need to take actions to prevent things from going this far.

GaryE · Nov 2, 2024

When a Cichlid or other territorial fish is defeated in nature, it leaves. In a tank, there's nowhere to go. When they get themselves into a corner at the surface, it means they are going to die if you don't move them out. They are utterly defeated and can't do what's natural - run for it. It's the fish version of the kicked dog pose, and it's a horrible sight.