Water Change Temperature And Bacteria

[dazbud]

I'm struggling to get the Nitrogen cycle going.
Twice I have nitrites, but only for a day and then they disappeared totally and next day was back to just ammonia readings with no nitrites or nitrates.

I'm doing fish-in cycle, due to misadvice from LFS, so lately have been doing daily water changes of 30% to try and stop the ammonia getting too high.
A friend told me, I could be changing water too often and killing them off.
I'm considering dropping back on the water change and just sticking with the Seachem Prime dose every 48 hours to detoxify it.

I'm starting to get frustrated that the bacteria are not taking hold.

I heard somewhere that the bacteria can be kiled when you change water if the temp is not exatly right.
A few weeks ago I was matching water change temp exactly with a thermometer. The last couple of weeks, I've just been feeling it with my fingers.

Does anyone know if the bacteria are that sensitive to temp change?
Also, it may sound like a silly question, but should I introduce new water very slowly, or can it just be poured in?
Also, I'm using Tetra Aquasafe declorinator. I basically just stir it into the new water then pour the water in. Should I let it stand for maybe just a little while before adding ?

Like I say, getting very frustrated about this Nitrite/Nitrate business. Particularly since I've seen them briefly come and go twice.

Although the tank has been up and running for approx 6 weeks, its only had fish in for 4. I was trying the fish food fishless cycle prior to adding the fish, without success.

PS: most of the plants you can see in pic are real and growing lik crazy. However, I don't think I have enough to do silent cycle. No doubt they are eating some of the ammonia, but I still have a daily ammonia reading, so I'm guessing there should be enough left for the bacteria.

 

[Egmel]

First off, that tank is looking lovely.

I'm struggling to get the Nitrogen cycle going.
Twice I have nitrites, but only for a day and then they disappeared totally and next day was back to just ammonia readings with no nitrites or nitrates.

Ok, so this may have been an error in your readings or you did have nitrites which got converted to nitrates and then used by your plants. Are you using the liquid or the strip test kit?

I'm doing fish-in cycle, due to misadvice from LFS, so lately have been doing daily water changes of 30% to try and stop the ammonia getting too high.
A friend told me, I could be changing water too often and killing them off.

If you're pre-treating your water with dechlorinator then this is really unlikely.

I'm considering dropping back on the water change and just sticking with the Seachem Prime dose every 48 hours to detoxify it.

You could do but I'm not sure how the test readings work, i.e will they read the locked ammonia or not, will you be able to tell if it's actually safe for your fish?

I'm starting to get frustrated that the bacteria are not taking hold.

I heard somewhere that the bacteria can be kiled when you change water if the temp is not exatly right.
A few weeks ago I was matching water change temp exactly with a thermometer. The last couple of weeks, I've just been feeling it with my fingers.

Does anyone know if the bacteria are that sensitive to temp change?

They should be fine, if it's not to much of a change for your fish then it should be well within the range of what you bacteria can handle.

Also, it may sound like a silly question, but should I introduce new water very slowly, or can it just be poured in?

Go with what your fish like, some of mine dance in and out of the hosepipe when I have it re-filling others hide up the other end of the tank

Also, I'm using Tetra Aquasafe declorinator. I basically just stir it into the new water then pour the water in. Should I let it stand for maybe just a little while before adding ?

You shouldn't need to - I use the seachem prime and add it to the tank before re-filling, it's actually in the instructions. I wouldn't recommend this for a new set up but it does say that it's instantaneous.

Like I say, getting very frustrated about this Nitrite/Nitrate business. Particularly since I've seen them briefly come and go twice.

relax, it will happen.

Although the tank has been up and running for approx 6 weeks, its only had fish in for 4. I was trying the fish food fishless cycle prior to adding the fish, without success.

PS: most of the plants you can see in pic are real and growing lik crazy. However, I don't think I have enough to do silent cycle. No doubt they are eating some of the ammonia, but I still have a daily ammonia reading, so I'm guessing there should be enough left for the bacteria.

What level or ammonia are you getting and how many fish do you have in the tank?

My gut feeling about this is a) if you're using the test strips that they're lying about the results a little, probably too low on the nitrite/nitrate. or more likely b) you've got very low ammonia levels which get turned into undetectable amounts of nitrite/nitrate. Depending on what levels you're getting I might be tempted to say miss a water change and see what the result is the next day, if the ammonia looks very high then do another water change but if it's stable then leave it another day and so on. i.e. test the water before you decide whether to do a change or not.

 

[AlphaNoob]

Hi. I am just coming to the end of my first cycle and I share your pain. My first suggestion is to test your water before you put into the tank just to see what your actually putting in (could have 1ppm of ammonia).
Have you added any of the filter aid stuff like stress zyme, it worked for me, although there seems to be mixed feelings on the stuff.
Is your filter working correctly? I had a Marine filter that hung off the back of the tank which was rubish, swapped it for an internal filter and 3 days later the ammonia started to drop. Just remember to drop the internal filter to the bottom when doing a water change so it isn't out of the water for an extended period of time.
When you change the water do you vacuum the gravel and clear out any loose plant bits? These could add to the ammonia levels.
By the way that is a fantastic setup. I am very jealous. I have to have a Scooby Doo van and castle in mine.

 

[dazbud]

thanks for the compliments and advice guys.

Just to give some additional info...

I'm using API master kit. I know its working fine because I set up a smaller cold water tank at the same time and I've seen the full range of resuls appear in that tank. That one cycled in 3 weeks.

Current readings for the troublsom 100L tank are
temperature 25.5C
PH : 7.6
Ammonia fluctuates between 0.5ppm and about 1.5ppm between water changes
Nitrites/Nitrates both 0ppm (although the Nitrites did appear twice at 1ppm only for a day)
My untreated tap water is about 0.25ppm Ammonia and no Nitrite/Nitrate.
I'm not sure
The filter is an Aquael Fan Plus 2 internal filter. ot sure if it is working correctly, but its causing a moderate current in the water and pushing through 450 litre/hour, its also aerating by means of an attached venturi. So it looks fine. I have an additional airstone too.

Fish are 6x neon tetra, 3 x balloon mollie, 2 x platy, 2x honey gourami. Max size of any of them is 1.5 inches
There were also 6 guppies, but they have all died in the last week.
I know now this is too many fish for an uncycled tank, but the LFS just advised to keep adding fish after the first week.

I did use Stress Zyme for the first couple of weeks until it run out.
Am using Tetra Aquasafe as a declorinator now and dosing the tank with Seachem Prime every 48hrs as a detoxifier.
With Prime the readings are meant to not be affected.
Just finished a course of Seachem Stability. Which is meant to kick start bacteria, but didn't seem to do anything.
Have just added Tetra Aquastart today, which is meant to do what Seachem Stability was meant to do

I'm not quite sure whether I'm vacuuming enough, too lightly or too deeply. I started out by raking down. The last couple of weeks I got worried that I might be sucking up the bacteria so have switched to just skimming the surface of the gravel with the vacuum.

PS: Scooby Doo is cool !

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to our forum dazbud.
Bacterial development is very slow, so much of what you are doing may seem like a waste of your time. Here we go. Do a water change, I prefer a huge one, whenever your ammonia or nitrite readings reach a value near 0.25 ppm. That will mean lots of water changes during the cycle process. As it turns out the ammonia processing bacteria will take 2 to 3 weeks to become established and it may take twice as long for the nitrite processing bacteria to become established. That will mean tons of huge water changes over a prolonged period of time but if done every time it is indicated, you should lose none of your fish and you will reach an end point where things are semi-stable. What does this mean? It means that your LFS has over-simplified the process that you will witness in your tank.
The bacteria that we are trying to establish do not live in the water, they live on your filter media. That means that you should not worry about bacteria in the water. You are trying to establish a colony of bacteria in your filter, mostly, and water changes will protect your fish from harm from those poisonous chemicals that result from an incomplete cycle. A thing that helps the fish keeper, not the fish, includes using smaller or less frequent feedings. This reduces the amount of ammonia and nitrites that you will deal with. NB: Any decaying organic material adds ammonia and the resulting nitrites to your water.

 

[dazbud]

Well I have eliminated the water changes from being the reason why my nitrites keep coming and going. I've just left the tank 4 days without any water change. Ammonia gradually crept up to 2ppm. Nitrites registered at .25ppm last night and were gone this morning. No sign of nitrates. I checked again tonight before doing water change and Nitrites and Nitrates zero again.

So still not sure why the Nitrites keep coming and going within 12 hours, but at least I know its nothing to do with the water changes.

 

[OldMan47]

At 2 ppm of ammonia,c you are threatening your fish's health. Stop messing about and do a huge water change. There is no point to worrying about nitrites when all of your fish have died from ammonia poisoning.