Vallisneria Seems To Be Melting

[eaglesaquarium]

Alright, here's my set-up (more information in the thread linked in sig.):
 
 
Lighting: 128 Watts (4x 32W T8 6500k bulbs) - 8 hours a day (on a timer, so it NEVER changes).
 
Tank: 6 foot, 110 USGallon tank, roughly 22 inches from lights to substrate.
 
Substrate: Sand
 
 
Plants in tank:  
Vallisneria (both 'jungle' and 'italian' - 6 each, planted about 2 inches apart from each other.
Amazon sword - solo plant, not doing very well... browning a bit as well.
Purple cabomba - doesn't seem to be suffering at all.
Dwarf Hairgrass - starting to send out runners  (been in the tank for about a month)
Various ferns (all growing fine - new growth obvious and BRIGHT green)
 
 
Organics in the water:  I've been dosing 3ppm-4ppm daily with ammonia, which has been converting to nitrate in less than 24 hours consistently.  Fish are due today, so I just did a >95% water change to "zero" the tank from nitrates, etc.  (winter storm in the area, so fish shipment may be delayed).  (No algae growth.)
 
 
 
So, why are the vallisneria "melting"?  They are browning over, not really taking to their new home.  They have been in the tank for 8 days now, and haven't really adjusted yet.  I bought purple cabomba (listed as purple, but looks pretty green, and did in the store as well), which hasn't melted and hasn't changed color, or not appreciably.  
 
 
 
I see 5 possible solutions:
 
A - dosing Flourish to increase trace elements in the water on a weekly, or semi-weekly basis.
B - dosing Flourish Excel every other day (or maybe even every 3 days) to increase carbon available to the plants
C - pulling some of the sand out, and putting in a Planting substrate like Eco-Complete in the areas where the cabomba and vallis are planted.
D - wait for the fish to be in the tank, and see how the addition of the fish changes things - given that they will be adding a whole different set of chemicals to the water
E - some combination of the above.
 
 
 
 
If you need more details to address these issues, please check out the journal linked below.... I could really use some help, as I'm outside my realm of experience with these new plants!
 

 

[techen]

Do you dose once a week?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I don't currently dose anything - other than the ammonia to keep the filter cycled for the fish stock coming today or tomorrow.  Lots of fish coming!!!

 

[techen]

Ah so the plants are new? Vallis melting is nothing new, So long as you CO2 under that light?

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Plants use Nitrates, if your getting yours to zero then they're getting none, Excel melts Vallis so don't use that, dose some trace and once you start with fish and feeding the nitrates and phosphates will be there too.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes.  The vallis has been in the tank for about 8 days now.
 
 
I know the plants need nitrates, which is another reason that I'd been dosing the ammonia, to offer a nitrogen source to them - I've read recently that the plants actually "prefer" ammonia to nitrates as the nitrates require energy for the plants to convert into the proper form for them to use it.
 
I just "zeroed" the tank today as the fish (may or may not) arrive today.  Hopefully they do, but we have a winter storm here in the NE of the US, and it can delay shipments from time to time.  I don't think the storm is too bad, but that's just me.  I'm not the one making the delivery.  I look forward to being able to feed the fish and have them supply the necessary nitrates.
 
 
Do I "need" to dose CO2?  I was hoping to avoid that.  I probably could remove one or two bulbs from the fixture (each is 32W) if that would help keep the balance between nutrients and lighting more in equilibrium.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Your lighting is fine don't touch that, the plants do use a little ammonia but they need nitrates as to grow they photosynthesize, to photosynthesize they need all the nutrients plus any naturally occurring CO2 in the tap water. They wouldn't use it if it used more energy than they create from using it.

 

[greenmumma141]

i have 40+ vallis in my tank and i dont add any co2. they were melty at first but now have bounced back and the new growth is really taking off. I know your tank is bigger and our lighting is different, but we both have a little over 1 watt per gallon. so roughly... it's almost the same i guess. I think you should see a difference when you add your fish and get the eco system going if they're still melty, they'll grow back as long as the roots and base of the plant is still there you should be okay

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Your lighting is fine don't touch that, the plants do use a little ammonia but they need nitrates as to grow they photosynthesize, to photosynthesize they need all the nutrients plus any naturally occurring CO2 in the tap water. They wouldn't use it if it used more energy than they create from using it.

 
 
Here's the spot where I got my information...
Link.
 
 

Many terrestrial plants like peas and tomatoes do grow better with nitrates than ammonium [1]. Thus, some botanists assumed that aquatic plants would similarly take up and grow better with nitrates. However, actual experimental studies suggest otherwise.
Scientists from all over the world have studied nitrogen uptake in aquatic plants under a variety of experimental conditions. I was able to locate published studies on 33 different aquatic plant species. Only 4 of the 33 species preferred nitrates (Table 1).

TABLE 1:

Ammonium:                                                        Nitrate:
Agrostis canina                                                  Echinodorus ranunculoides
Callitriche hamulata                                          Littorella uniflora
Ceratophyllum demersum                                Lobelia dortmanna
Drepanocladus fluitans                                     Luronium natans
Eichhornia crassipes
Elodea densa
Elodea nuttallii
Fontinalis antipyretica
Hydrocotyle umbellata
Juncus bulbosus
Jungermannia vulcanicola
Lemna gibba
Lemna minor
Marchantia polymorpha
Myriophyllum spicatum
Pistia stratiotes
Ranunculus fluitans
Salvinia molesta
Scapania undulata
Sphagnum cuspidatum
Sphagnum fallax
Sphagnum flexuosum
Sphagnum fuscum
Sphagnum magellanicum
Sphagnum papillosum
Sphagnum pulchrum
Sphagnum rubellum
Spirodela oligorrhiza
Zostera marina

 
 
 
 
 
Its a wiki, and not a true scientific journal, so take it with a grain of salt, but the evidence seems to favor ammonia uptake rather than nitrate, if given the choice.

 

[AdamHawk]

Plants use Nitrates, if your getting yours to zero then they're getting none, Excel melts Vallis so don't use that, dose some trace and once you start with fish and feeding the nitrates and phosphates will be there too.

 
My melted due to Excel, what would you recommend that as good or better to use instead of Excel? Is there any known Ferts that melt it too?

 

[SLIM]

Can I just add that excel doesnt melt vallis. The trick is to dose 1 3rd week one, 2 3rds full dose week 2, and then full dose on week 3 onwards. I promise you, if you follow this your vallis wont melt. I know from experience. However full dosing from the start will melt your vallis.

My vallis goes nuts with excel

 

[Ps3Steveo]

But, excel has a 24hr half life, not dosing daily will cause fluctuations in it which can result in BBA. You don't need excel for Vallis just grow it low tech.

 

[techen]

This excel sounds crap xD No offence but if it causes plants to melt I'd rather stick with something else xD

 

[AdamHawk]

Can I just add that excel doesnt melt vallis. The trick is to dose 1 3rd week one, 2 3rds full dose week 2, and then full dose on week 3 onwards. I promise you, if you follow this your vallis wont melt. I know from experience. However full dosing from the start will melt your vallis.

My vallis goes nuts with excel

 
I have tried it in many ways and it did and does melt my vallis, so not sure to use it again tbh.
 

But, excel has a 24hr half life, not dosing daily will cause fluctuations in it which can result in BBA. You don't need excel for Vallis just grow it low tech.

 
No you don't need, excel but with other plants and high lights, you need something in there.
 
But my unkownety is what? Other than Excel?

 

[SLIM]

Im not saying you need excel im simply saying excel can be used with vallis without melting.
Obviously it needs to be dosed daily.
Iv had massive success in the past by dosing one 3rd recommended dosage daily for one week.
Then dosing two 3rds recommended dosage daily on week 2.
Then dosing full dosage daily on week 3 and onwards. My plants went banannas.


Excel and easy carbo are a great co2 suppliment. You just neec to know how to use it XD