Used Tetra Safe Start, Questions

BriansAquarium

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SO after watching a how to start a fresh water aquarium on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipSlRzFc54g I did as he suggested. Day three I have what may be a bacterial bloom (cloudy water). My ammonia is 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, and ph 7.4  (API Master kit) water temp 76. I have 10 glowlight tetras and 3 ghost shrimp. Any suggestions?  Everywhere I have read has mixed reviews. Some say wait it out, some say do 25% water changes 2 days in a row. Fish are not swimming erradically, but they aren't shoaling for some reason they are hiding out (maybe still a little stressed from move?). Any help is appreciated, this is my first tank and I read on the nitrogen cycle before hand, wife wanted one now, so TSS was the only fix. Thanks!
 
You didn't say how big your aquarium is... it could be you aren't detecting ammonia yet due to the dilution.
 
Products do not skip the cycling process, and until your tank is cycled your fish are in danger of ammonia poisoning if you aren't doing the appropriate water changes to protect them.  Please read up about a fish-in-cycle from this link and ask the related questions.
 
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
 
As stated above, we need to know the tank size.
 
Dr Tim's One and Only is a better choice, imo, but Safe Start will do. They have different directions. Which ever product you choose it is important to follow the directions to the letter. Failing to do so is the biggest single cause of failure.
 
Get the tank set up and filled with dechlorinated water. Run it for a day to be sure all is running right. Then add the bacteria. If one insists on doing a fish in cycle, add the fish. Either way, be sere to turn  off the lights for at least the first 24 hours after adding the product and do no water changes for the days following to give the bacteria time to find places to attach in the tank and filter. Safe Start wants you not to have added dechlor for at least 24 hours before adding the product or for the next 7 days afterwards.
 
Please note that these products will not prevent any ammonia or nitrite from showing up, rather they will keep it lower and deal with the cycle faster than not using them or bacteria seeded from an established tank. As a result it is important to monitor things. These products are really great when used to jump start a flshless cycle.
 
Because they are not so easy to find on the net, here is a 2009 post on another forum from Tetra regarding using Safe Start:
 
Hi there,

Wow, lots of questions! All are pretty simple, and we get them a lot too..............

So...where to begin? First, ideally you should set up the tank, and let it run at least 24 hours, then, shortly before you head off to the store for your first fish, add TSS to the tank. Within two hours, you should add the fish. Our normal recommendation is to add one small fish per ten gallons of water. However, you CAN fully stock the tank, you just need to keep a close eye on it, and be sure to not complicate matters by overfeeding as well. We recommend this method for African cichlid tanks since it is best to fully stock such a tank from the beginning due to territorial issues. For a novice fish-keeper, we'd recommend the one small fish per ten gallons rule for the first two weeks. Within two weeks, TSS should have fully cycled the tank and they can start slowly adding more fish, one at a time.

In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the food the bacteria require to live.

If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 PPM ammonia may harm some of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7 days.

Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary.

You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and making a difference in about that time. You have to have some ammonia occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the fish.

We recommend waiting two weeks before a water change. Of course, if for some reason, the levels go up to a high level again, we would recommend a change at that point, and another dose. Usually, the hobbyist has done something wrong the first time, in such cases.

Nope, bacteria should not affect the pH.

Hmmm....be sure the levels are not already toxic, shake the container thoroughly, be sure to add the right dosage, do not use an ammonia detoxifying product, and be patient. It won't give you zero readings in an hour, like some folks think. By the way, carbon does not affect it but uv lights do...we get those questions too. :) And just an interesting point...the large aquariums, such as the Georgia Aquarium, and the Shedd Aquarium, as well as huge research labs in this country and other countries, also use TSS as well as the saltwater version Bio Spira.

If I have not addressed all of your questions, please let me know.

Regards,

Tetra Care
 
For Dr Tim's info, visit his site at http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/ His product is much easier to use but costs more. I use it in certain applications.
 
I also will suggest to folks who have already added fish and then discovered they need help, that they purchase more bacteria than is needed for a tank their size. The extra will make it more certain one avoids problems or can fix existing ones faster.
 
Btw- shrimp should not be used during a fish in cycle as they are far more at risk due to very low tolerance for ammonia or nitrite.
 
It is a 20g tank, sorry. Just tested again today, all 10 fish still alive, water temp up to 78 (tetra's like warm water) ph 7.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, this is 4 days in, using API master kit. Why don't I have any ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates yet? I find this very weird 4 days in still nothing. Ghost shrimp and fish doing fine. I removed some of the plants and they are schooling more appropriately, think I had too many plants in the tank (although I went with what was recommended). Thanks for the answers.
 
I'm not sure why you're not seeing any signs of ammonia. I don't want to sound patronising, but are you sure you're doing the tests correctly?
 
Also; fish only school as defense mechanism when they feel threatened. When they're happy and feel secure, they won't school but make a looser shoal, so you might want to think about putting the plants back in.
 
Yeah I'm doing the tests right. Fish are in groups of 2-3 now and look like they are doing fine. Test is you fill vials to fill line (5ml), add the number of drops from bottle 1 then bottle 2 if needed, shake well, then read. If this is not the proper way then please let me know. Ghost shrimp are also doing fine. When taking a few of the plants out, stirring the gravel made debris, so there is definitely stuff that should be breaking down into ammonia, then nitrite, then into nitrate. Just not sure what is going on. All tests read 0ppm. I have a seachem ammonia dial in the tank as well so I can always see what ammonia level is just in case there is a spike, even that is showing 0ppm. Like I said first tank, just want to do everything right. Still have 10 fish so I guess everything is going ok. If they start dropping off and I can't fix It I will probably just start from scratch again, with a  fishless cycle, even though it takes weeks, it is probably the better route. I went to tetras website on their QA and it seems like the product works well. I would just expect nitrate levels by now at least, because if the ammonia and nitrite is being processed I should have nitrates. Maybe it takes longer than three days who knows.
 
How often do u water change! Just bare in mind in order to grow the certain bacterias u need they require ammonia and nitrites to be present! But obviously for the health of your stock this should remain low so only think about changing the water if u get a reading of ammonia of around 0.25 ppm
 
Just got back home after being gone 6 hours, fish are all alive and seem to be doing well. I will just have to keep an eye on it. Going to wait a month or so to add any more fish, can't wait until this cloud of bacteria goes away, so annoying. And not doing any water changes yet, no reason to. Only need to water change when chemicals get to high (nitrates after cycle is complete). Once fish tank is cycled going to do the weekly 10-15% water changes or more depending on the nitrate level.
 
Yea I done a water change other day n almost straight after the water went cloudy but cleared by morning! Over time the more established the aquarium becomes you will find it happens rarely if atall!!
 
BriansAquarium said:
Test is you fill vials to fill line (5ml), add the number of drops from bottle 1 then bottle 2 if needed, shake well, then read. If this is not the proper way then please let me know.
 
The instructions also say to wait 5 mins before reading (except pH, read that straight away) - are you doing this? It does take those 5 mins for the colour to develop.
 
Yeah waited 5 minutes today and before ammonia total is .25ppm so going up a little now. Cloudiness is starting to fade as well
 

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