Under Gravel Filter System

[eaglesaquarium]

We dont wish to use sand.

Our question was can we set up and go with the Under Gravel Filter System. He is taking out his fish and putting them in his new tank, doing a quick clean although we have asked for it not to be cleaned within an inch of its life because of the goodness in the tank.

We will be using an external filter alongside the Under Gravel Filter in the hope that it gets a good stock of media and we will eventually remove the UGF but i dont personally see why it needs to be done now because its a system thats working.

The tank currently houses a very successful breeding pair of Blue Angelfish, a breeding pair of Lemon Pleco, a decent amount of Discus and some other beautiful fish. It also houses live plants and not those awful plasic ones. Its a system that works! Why get rid of perfectly good and decent filter media if you dont need to.

You seem pretty set on what you want to do. But, can I ask what wisdom there is in running two filters on the tank and then later removing the UGF later. If you don't plan to keep the UGF long term, what's the sense in using it at all? Place the gravel into the external filter and complete an abbreviated fishless cycle (see my sig for link). This won't take very long, and it will work even better than trying to see one filter while running another and be FAR less disruptive than removing a UGF. Have you ever done that before? Do you know how much mulm and other materials you will kick up into the water column? I would recommend that you NOT set-up the UGF unless you plan to actually keep it long term. If you do, then learn how to properly maintain it. Gravel vaccing is paramount, so that you don't clog up the gravel. If you really don't intend to keep the UGF long term though, what is your reasoning behind setting it back up again? A few weeks (probably 7-14 days only) to properly set-up an external filter isn't a big deal. Theoretically, you could add a few fish, even if you follow the recommendation of adding the gravel to the external. Just keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite levels to ensure that they don't spike (something you will need to do even if you go with the UGF setup) and add a few more fish in a week or two (assuming no spikes.



(I will mention that I took the filter media from an internal and placed it into my HOB filter and was instantly cycled for the exact same stocking of fish. The bacteria just need a flow of ammonia in the water and oxygen so that they can process it. The recommendations you've gotten here will do that and you can still get fish right away, just start SLOWLY.)

 

[fishguy2727]

Very few people can manage an UGF long term better than they could do without it. It traps massive amounts of waste and it is very difficult to remove it all. He has been successful with it, like some other people, but if you haven't been managing UGFs since they were the best filtration out there, you will likely not do nearly as well as he managed to do. They are more work to keep at the same level.

Live plants are great, and prefer sand. They root much better in a sand substrate.

Effectively all of the fish we keep in aquariums have sand (or finer) as a substrate, not gravel. Gravel is not a natural substrate for almost any of the fish we keep.

Breeding has a lot more to do with food and water quality than type of filter. A lot of big water changes and good food can do the same thing with almost any filter.

IMO the best running and most enjoyable tanks are the ones that are setup so well that maintenance is minimal. When maintenance is needed it is simple and effective. This is not how I would describe an UGF. Now is your chance to get the tank off to the best start possible, I don't think using the UGF would do that.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'd just like to agree with the people saying that if you're going to be running an external filter and you want to remove the UG anyway, do it now, it'll be a million times easier than leaving it for a few months.

The reason the system is working (apart from the previous owner's experience, as fishguy says) is that there is a load of good bacteria living in the gravel. The bacteria couldn't care less whether they're in a UG system or a canister; as long as they have a flow of water and a source of ammonia for food, they'll live happily anywhere.

I changed the substrate in one of my tanks last summer; the tank hadn't been set up that long and was just 'normal' substrate, not a UG, plus I'm pretty thorough with my gravel cleaning, but you honestly would not believe the amount of crud I kicked up from the gravel (and it was very stressful for the fish; I had my first case of whitespot for over 20 years the next day).

It really would be much, much easier to put the gravel in the external and get rid of the UG now, if that's what you're going to do in the long-term anyway, rqther than disturb the whole thing a few months down the line.

As long as you protect the bacteria on the gravel (keep it wet and don't leave it without a flow of water for more than a few hours) you ought to be fine to add a few fish straight away (monitor the levels closely, of course).

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I guess most of the folks who have posted here may not have actually used an undergravel filter and likely not a reverse undergravel filter. The latter is really a quite efficient bio filter and when used properly (that is with a second filter used for mechanical and chemical filtration), it will keep ones water as clear or clearer than most any other filter you might run.

An RUGF runs flow in the opposite direction of the traditional UGF which pulls things down into the gravel which is why one must do regular gravel vacuuming and occasionally snake a tube under the plate to clear any crap that may have built up there. The RUGF uses a powerhead which has its intake sponged and then has the outflow directed down the uplift tube. The water then flows down under the plate and pushes up though the gravel. because the PH is sponged, little solid waste gets under the plate. The gentle upflow through the gravel has a secondary benefit, it tends to keep most debris from settling into the gravel. Instead it keeps the junk in the water which is where the second filter comes in- when loaded for mech waste it can pull the stuff out of the water. The net result is both cleaner gravel and cleaner water. You actually have to vacuum a tank with an RUGF setup like this a whole lot less than you do in other setups.

However, as I noted in my post above, you have to be able to put up with all that equipment showing in a tank or else be able to hide it. One other note, you can plant tanks using undergravel filteration. Just use water dosed ferts and don't plant heavily as you can end up impeding the flow though the gravel.

 

[fishguy2727]

I have used both, UGF and RUGF. Both provide the same issues, areas that you cannot get to and properly clean without breaking the whole thing down. Even with great maintenance boths systems are just too prone to becoming problems long term. It isn't worth the risk IMO.

There are simply much better options out there that are effective and much easier to maintain than UGF/RUGF. This is not the 80's, we have better options now.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I guess most of the folks who have posted here may not have actually used an undergravel filter and likely not a reverse undergravel filter.

That's not my issue. My issue is that the OP is planning to put it in just to remove it a few months later. Why? If the UGF is good enough to use, then keep it. If not, then don't bother starting with it. Since there are no fish coming with this tank, there is no rush to get things going. It should just be set up properly from the start.