Uh Oh Help Please!

[LionessN3cubs]

Using sodium bicarb (what baking soda is) is supposed to somehow not be good long term (something about raising alkalinity I don't fully understand yet) but it will all go out with the large water change after fishless cycling. I would only use crushed coral to do a similar move after I had fish, but I hope to avoid messing with KH and pH at all after fishless cycling is finished.

yup, definatley best to avoid messing with it if you can!

we had some african cichlids for a while and wanted to raise the pH up a bit, ours is naturall stable as anything at 7.4 so it didn't need much boosting, handful of crushed coral in the substrate was enough to get it up where it wanted to be and it leeches out slowly so it just gives a nice gradual raise which is safest with fish in. likewise when the effect starts to drop off it's all gradual

Okay SO :::sigh:::: Here goes.


Did another 90% change. PH 7.4. Added ammonia back up to 4ml. Added 1/2 teaspoon baking soda sprinkled throughout. Will be checking the levels of PH and KH again shortly.

I'll do what you suggested and buy some crushed coral if I can find it for after fishless cycling is done to help this issue out. I did retest the tap today just in case it was a blip ...nope...6.6 is baseline. I do find it interesting tho that Out of the tap its 6.6, with dechlorinator added its 7.4? Is that odd?


Anything else I should do now?

 

[LionessN3cubs]

KH is now about 6..is that too high?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Using sodium bicarb (what baking soda is) is supposed to somehow not be good long term (something about raising alkalinity I don't fully understand yet) but it will all go out with the large water change after fishless cycling. I would only use crushed coral to do a similar move after I had fish, but I hope to avoid messing with KH and pH at all after fishless cycling is finished.

yup, definatley best to avoid messing with it if you can!

we had some african cichlids for a while and wanted to raise the pH up a bit, ours is naturall stable as anything at 7.4 so it didn't need much boosting, handful of crushed coral in the substrate was enough to get it up where it wanted to be and it leeches out slowly so it just gives a nice gradual raise which is safest with fish in. likewise when the effect starts to drop off it's all gradual

Okay SO :::sigh:::: Here goes.


Did another 90% change. PH 7.4. Added ammonia back up to 4ml. Added 1/2 teaspoon baking soda sprinkled throughout. Will be checking the levels of PH and KH again shortly.

I'll do what you suggested and buy some crushed coral if I can find it for after fishless cycling is done to help this issue out. I did retest the tap today just in case it was a blip ...nope...6.6 is baseline. I do find it interesting tho that Out of the tap its 6.6, with dechlorinator added its 7.4? Is that odd?


Anything else I should do now?

that's v odd that it goes up to 7.4 after dechlor, can't give any explanation for that. do a little test to see if it will hold at 7.4 without all the mucking around of cycling going on, just stick some dechlorinated water in a glass or something and test the pH over the course of a few days. if it's holding steady at 7.4 then you may find that once the cycle's finished you're ok in the tank, if it drops down again then you'll need to think of something long term to hold the pH up, or alternativley stock with fish that like a nice low pH. stuff like angels, discus and lots of tetra's will be more than happy at 6.6

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Lioness, Miss Wiggle,

Something is wrong here. Lioness has been reporting a tap water of 7.8 to 8.0 forever. I remember because right from the beginning, she had to try out the high pH test because her pH was at the top of the normal API pH test range. Her hardness was also quite high if I remember correctly. Municipal water systems can't just change things like that overnight! It would require a whole new source of water for the city I think. I mean, they vary their chemicals at times and make small changes, but water would almost never go from being hard and basic to being KH=0 extreme soft and very acid!

The posts in just this thread start out all at 7.8 to 8.0 and then suddenly near the end it is 6.6 and in between it was 7.4:
Here is the 7.4 post (and no, no dechlor product should raise pH from 6.6 to 7.4, that makes no sense at all to me):

"Okay SO :::sigh:::: Here goes.

Did another 90% change. PH 7.4. Added ammonia back up to 4ml. Added 1/2 teaspoon baking soda sprinkled throughout. Will be checking the levels of PH and KH again shortly.

I'll do what you suggested and buy some crushed coral if I can find it for after fishless cycling is done to help this issue out. I did retest the tap today just in case it was a blip ...nope...6.6 is baseline. I do find it interesting tho that Out of the tap its 6.6, with dechlorinator added its 7.4? Is that odd?

Anything else I should do now?"

The API pH test goes like this, right lioness? Fill test tube with test water to 5ml white line. Take blue labeled pH test bottle. Hold bottle vertical and drip 3 brownish drops into tube - they turn dull medium blue upon hitting the water more or less. Cap tube and invert 3 or 4 times. Read against chart under lamp. Higher values are more blue, lower ones becoming lighter and more greenish. (working from memory here.) Does that sound like how you are doing the tests?

Or, I suppose if somehow your water supply -is- in fact swinging wildly like this, that might explain some of the problems you've had. If you really believe the previous and current tests were done correctly, I might try to find out from the lab at the water authority if the change makes sense to them or if there is an explanation.

Also, so I don't forget: When we discussed the baking soda vs. coral, I was -not- necessarily recommending that you use coral after you get fish. That is a completely separate decision. I would hope to only use the buffering during fishless cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Hi Lioness, Miss Wiggle,

Something is wrong here. Lioness has been reporting a tap water of 7.8 to 8.0 forever. I remember because right from the beginning, she had to try out the high pH test because her pH was at the top of the normal API pH test range. Her hardness was also quite high if I remember correctly. Municipal water systems can't just change things like that overnight! It would require a whole new source of water for the city I think. I mean, they vary their chemicals at times and make small changes, but water would almost never go from being hard and basic to being KH=0 extreme soft and very acid!

The posts in just this thread start out all at 7.8 to 8.0 and then suddenly near the end it is 6.6 and in between it was 7.4:
Here is the 7.4 post (and no, no dechlor product should raise pH from 6.6 to 7.4, that makes no sense at all to me):

"Okay SO :::sigh:::: Here goes.

Did another 90% change. PH 7.4. Added ammonia back up to 4ml. Added 1/2 teaspoon baking soda sprinkled throughout. Will be checking the levels of PH and KH again shortly.

I'll do what you suggested and buy some crushed coral if I can find it for after fishless cycling is done to help this issue out. I did retest the tap today just in case it was a blip ...nope...6.6 is baseline. I do find it interesting tho that Out of the tap its 6.6, with dechlorinator added its 7.4? Is that odd?

Anything else I should do now?"

The API pH test goes like this, right lioness? Fill test tube with test water to 5ml white line. Take blue labeled pH test bottle. Hold bottle vertical and drip 3 brownish drops into tube - they turn dull medium blue upon hitting the water more or less. Cap tube and invert 3 or 4 times. Read against chart under lamp. Higher values are more blue, lower ones becoming lighter and more greenish. (working from memory here.) Does that sound like how you are doing the tests?

Or, I suppose if somehow your water supply -is- in fact swinging wildly like this, that might explain some of the problems you've had. If you really believe the previous and current tests were done correctly, I might try to find out from the lab at the water authority if the change makes sense to them or if there is an explanation.

Also, so I don't forget: When we discussed the baking soda vs. coral, I was -not- necessarily recommending that you use coral after you get fish. That is a completely separate decision. I would hope to only use the buffering during fishless cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

Yep thats how my testing goes...except THIS last couple of days when I did the KH test...the drops NEVER turned blue...instant yellow on contact. Inverting the tube only made it MORE yellow. However, when I did the PH and KH tests the very first time..they turned blue and I might be crazy but Im seeming to remember it taking like 12 drops to get it to turn yellow...That really was why I never checked it again...because from what I'd read on here my ph and kh were so high it shouldnt have been a worry.

I'll put in a call to the water department tomorrow and see if I get any more answers. I had called a week or so ago about the water drying pink on surfaces and the lady I spoke to that time (wasnt the first I'd called) did in fact say it was probably due to a bacteria thingy.

 

[waterdrop]

I've been doing this fishless cycle so long now that I'm beginning to get an empirical feeling about pH. I really think it makes quite a difference. The slope seems less curved and more linear - instead of the process getting suddenly more slow down around pH 6.2, its been feeling to me like bacterial growth just gets better and better as you head up from the 6's and through the 7's in pH. Definately not scientific but boy, they sure do seem to like higher pH.

Makes me wish you could magically grab the data from all of our TFF fishless cycling episodes and just analyze it and see if all the people with more basic pH had a much faster and easier cycle than those of us with a more acid pH!

~~waterdrop~~