Two Dead Guppies

[!!11oneone]

Hello

We've been slowly setting up a 63 litre tank... we ran it for over a month with biocultures, then added 6 zebra danios and some live plants. The danios are doing extremely well.

A month later we added six guppies, all male. One of them died about 2 days after putting him in - I assume he simply didn't like the change.

Now, two weeks later a second previously healthy looking and active guppy died after 24 hours or lying around looking ill. It was 2 days after a water change - but the water was tested as neutral pH, was the right temperature and had been conditioned to remove chlorine - basically the same as I've done for weeks. I siphon out a bucket of water with a gravel cleaner and have a bit of a poke around the bottom for gunk, rinse the filter sponges in the bucket of tank water, change the carbon filter and debris pad, then siphon back in a fresh bucket of treated water of neutral pH and 24 degrees.

Nitrate and Nitrite tests have never come out higher than the lowest band (I always mix them up, but I believe the nitrites are 0).

His colours were a little dulled, and I noticed the others picking on him a bit. But I'm sure they didn't until he was ill, and he didn't have any marks or damage to his scales or fins.



My questions are:
1. Is there something I could be doing wrong, or are a couple of early deaths expected?
2. Is there anything at all I can do if a fish starts looking inexplicably ill and weak?
3. We would be expecting to add a few more fish this weekend, should we now wait? Should we maybe just replace the guppies to keep a higher number of friends for the others?

 

[fatheadminnow]

First of all,

Hello

We've been slowly setting up a 63 litre tank... we ran it for over a month with biocultures, then added 6 zebra danios and some live plants. The danios are doing extremely well.

A month later we added six guppies, all male. One of them died about 2 days after putting him in - I assume he simply didn't like the change.

Now, two weeks later a second previously healthy looking and active guppy died after 24 hours or lying around looking ill. It was 2 days after a water change - but the water was tested as neutral pH, was the right temperature and had been conditioned to remove chlorine - basically the same as I've done for weeks. I siphon out a bucket of water with a gravel cleaner and have a bit of a poke around the bottom for gunk, rinse the filter sponges in the bucket of tank water, change the carbon filter and debris pad, then siphon back in a fresh bucket of treated water of neutral pH and 24 degrees.

Nitrate and Nitrite tests have never come out higher than the lowest band.

His colours were a little dulled, and I noticed the others picking on him a bit. But I'm sure they didn't until he was ill, and he didn't have any marks or damage to his scales or fins.



My questions are:
1. Is there something I could be doing wrong, or are a couple of early deaths expected?
2. Is there anything at all I can do if a fish starts looking inexplicably ill and weak?
3. We would be expecting to add a few more fish this weekend, should we now wait? Should we maybe just replace the guppies to keep a higher number of friends for the others?

We need to know what the water parameters are, Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, and pH, actual numbers if possible!

Also, you should only need to rinse the filter media out in tank water 1 a month, every week is too much.

And what do you mean that you change the debris pad? Do you mean the foam insert? If so, this should not be changed every week, but rinsed in tank water 1 a month and kept in your tank. The foam/sponge inserts should only be changed if they are physically falling apart, and cannot support the beneficial bacteria efficiently.

So we need to know what the water parameters are first!

Also, I don't know if guppies can be introduced into a freshly cycled tank(someone please clarify.)

A freshly cycled tank is not going to have a very well established "bio" filter, and there might be some "swings" in ammonia and nitrite, which would be unsuitable for some fish. Maybe guppies

-FHM

 

[!!11oneone]

First of all,

Hello

We've been slowly setting up a 63 litre tank... we ran it for over a month with biocultures, then added 6 zebra danios and some live plants. The danios are doing extremely well.

A month later we added six guppies, all male. One of them died about 2 days after putting him in - I assume he simply didn't like the change.

Now, two weeks later a second previously healthy looking and active guppy died after 24 hours or lying around looking ill. It was 2 days after a water change - but the water was tested as neutral pH, was the right temperature and had been conditioned to remove chlorine - basically the same as I've done for weeks. I siphon out a bucket of water with a gravel cleaner and have a bit of a poke around the bottom for gunk, rinse the filter sponges in the bucket of tank water, change the carbon filter and debris pad, then siphon back in a fresh bucket of treated water of neutral pH and 24 degrees.

Nitrate and Nitrite tests have never come out higher than the lowest band.

His colours were a little dulled, and I noticed the others picking on him a bit. But I'm sure they didn't until he was ill, and he didn't have any marks or damage to his scales or fins.



My questions are:
1. Is there something I could be doing wrong, or are a couple of early deaths expected?
2. Is there anything at all I can do if a fish starts looking inexplicably ill and weak?
3. We would be expecting to add a few more fish this weekend, should we now wait? Should we maybe just replace the guppies to keep a higher number of friends for the others?

We need to know what the water parameters are, Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, and pH, actual numbers if possible!

Also, you should only need to rinse the filter media out in tank water 1 a month, every week is too much.

And what do you mean that you change the debris pad? Do you mean the foam insert? If so, this should not be changed every week, but rinsed in tank water 1 a month and kept in your tank. The foam/sponge inserts should only be changed if they are physically falling apart, and cannot support the beneficial bacteria efficiently.

So we need to know what the water parameters are first!

Also, I don't know if guppies can be introduced into a freshly cycled tank(someone please clarify.)

A freshly cycled tank is not going to have a very well established "bio" filter, and there might be some "swings" in ammonia and nitrite, which would be unsuitable for some fish.

-FHM

Nitrite is zero
Nitrate is in the 50ppm band (I think - it's the lowest the test detects apart from 0)
pH I have had a bit of trouble with as we're in a hard water area so out of the tap it's 8. In the tank it crept up to 7.5 but is back again and I'm trying to keep an eye on it and it seems to have stabilised.


Thanks for the advice on the filters, I did wonder if that was right. I'll leave them un-rinsed for longer!

The thing I'm discarding is like a little cotton wool pad that sits on top of the carbon sponge, which according to the box is there to stop big stuff going into the filter. It goes green with gunk. This is seperate to the two foam inserts that are the actual filter medium

 

[fatheadminnow]

What kind of test kit are you using?

-FHM

 

[!!11oneone]

What kind of test kit are you using?

-FHM

Sera liquid test kits.


Oh, and thanks for the welcome and the advice!

 

[fatheadminnow]

Can you get a Ammonia reading at all?

If a fish is looking sick, you should put him in a quarantine tank and treat him with the correct medicine.

You can post on here in the "Fish Emergency" section, your fish's symptoms, and people here will try to help you out with what the fish has, and what med to buy and use.

How did you put your fish in your tank when you bought him? Did you just pour him right in or did you let the bag sit in the water, and then slowly mixed the water over the course of 30-45 minutes?

-FHM

 

[!!11oneone]

Can you get a Ammonia reading at all?

If a fish is looking sick, you should put him in a quarantine tank and treat him with the correct medicine.

You can post on here in the "Fish Emergency" section, your fish's symptoms, and people here will try to help you out with what the fish has, and what med to buy and use.

How did you put your fish in your tank when you bought him? Did you just pour him right in or did you let the bag sit in the water, and then slowly mixed the water over the course of 30-45 minutes?

-FHM

I don't have an ammonia test kit. I was told that the nitrite/nitrate/pH would be enough. Should I get one? And if ammonia is high, is a big water change the answer?

We did introduce them slowly, as you say.

Sadly, we don't have (or have room for) a quarantine tank and the extra pump and heater that would need. My wife was very upset with the guppy's death throws, but there's not a lot we could do

 

[fatheadminnow]

Sorry to hear that...

Anyways, yes, a ammonia test is a must for fish keepers.

The four(4) water parameters that you should have a test kit for are Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, and pH.

Ammonia should not be high if your tank is fully cycled.

Ammonia is processed to nitrite, via beneficial bacteria, and then a different type of bacteria in our filter processes nitrite into nitrate.

But what could of happened was; when you put it the six guppies, which is quite a lot of fish at one time, since there is going to be more ammonia produced because of the extra amount of waste from the new fish, you could of had a spike in ammonia, and/or nitrite which could be the reason why the fish died. It could take up to a week for the beneficial bacteria in your filter to colonize more to process the extra amount of ammonia being produced.

That is why a ammonia test is a must, along with the other 3 test kits.

-FHM

-FHM

 

[!!11oneone]

Sorry to hear that...

Anyways, yes, a ammonia test is a must for fish keepers.

The four(4) water parameters that you should have a test kit for are Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, and pH.

Ammonia should not be high if your tank is fully cycled.

Ammonia is processed to nitrite, via beneficial bacteria, and then a different type of bacteria in our filter processes nitrite into nitrate.

But what could of happened was; when you put it the six guppies, which is quite a lot of fish at one time, since there is going to be more ammonia produced because of the extra amount of waste from the new fish, you could of had a spike in ammonia, and/or nitrite which could be the reason why the fish died. It could take up to a week for the beneficial bacteria in your filter to colonize more to process the extra amount of ammonia being produced.

That is why a ammonia test is a must, along with the other 3 test kits.

-FHM

-FHM

I'm guessing the first just didn't like the new tank. The second was two weeks later, though, so it must've been a waste issue.

The dealer's point was that since ammonia goes to nitrite, knowing the nitrite levels is enough. Though I guess I've currently no way to check that process is working! I'll get a kit.

What should I do next? I did a water change three days ago. Should I do another in the light of the death? Should I wait a while before adding more fish?

 

[fatheadminnow]

After you get a test kit, and get some solid numbers and post them on here, then we will see if you need to do a water change.

Although, 50 ppm of nitrate is getting high, and it should be down around 20-40 ppm.

Ammonia and nitrite should be at zero on your test kit. If they are any higher than zero, then a water change is a must to get ithem as close to zero as possible, and eventually your bacteria will colonize enough to process the extra amount of waste being produced.

You should do at least a 10%-15% water change once a week to keep your nitrate under control.

The API Freshwater Master Test Kit, is a very good test kit that a lot of us on here use and trust!

And it tests for the four(4) water parameters.

-FHM

 

[!!11oneone]

After you get a test kit, and get some solid numbers and post them on here, then we will see if you need to do a water change.

Although, 50 ppm of nitrate is getting high, and it should be down around 20-40 ppm.

Ammonia and nitrite should be at zero on your test kit. If they are any higher than zero, then a water change is a must to get ithem as close to zero as possible, and eventually your bacteria will colonize enough to process the extra amount of waste being produced.

You should do at least a 10%-15% water change once a week to keep your nitrate under control.

The API Freshwater Master Test Kit, is a very good test kit that a lot of us on here use and trust!

And it tests for the four(4) water parameters.

-FHM

I might be wrong on the nitrate levels - certainly it was in the lowest colour bar of the test other than zero. I've been doing about a 10-15% change so I guess it might just not be establised properly to cope with the extra fish. Probably my over-zealous rinsing of the filters hasn't helped.

I'll come back with the four readings. Thanks for your help and time!

 

[fatheadminnow]

Your welcome!

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Sounds like oneone is doing most things right. Guppies in recent years are badly inbred and a lot of them will just die for no seeming reason.

I think you're going in a good direction FHM, to check on the ammonia and the overall quality of the test kit. Tap water parameters will also be useful for baseline checking on the nitrate(NO3) levels.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[arobinson1984]

I'm relatively new to fishkeeping, about a year into it now but have a friend who has kept tropical fish and marine fish for years.

From what I believe, guppies need a relatively mature tank to survive long term, I wouldn't recommend putting them in a tank thats less than 6 months old at the earliest.

The zebra danios were a good choice as they are one of the hardiest fish you will find and can live through a wider variety of water conditions.

Also one 11oneone, if your filter has 2 sponge filters, usually the course pads, you'd be best cleaning one at a time, clean one the first month, then the other the following month, alternating like that the ensure you retain the level of good bacteria. Also be careful not to squeeze too much out of them, try to just get rid of excess gunk.

Andy

 

[Inchworm]

Hi !!11oneone

If the fish have been exposed to certain diseases while on their way to you, it might even take as long as a month to show up. That's why a lot of people like to have a quarantine tank.

Guppies in recent years are badly inbred and a lot of them will just die for no seeming reason.

I agree with waterdrop. They are not the sturdy little fish they used to be.