Tropical Virgin Hi

[Realtree]

Hi all,
very new to tropical aquariums and Have acqquired an Aqua one AR510 set up after liberating it from its unkempt state in a forgotten back room of a friends house.
I have a very basic knowledge of the cycle after much research.
My confusion is basiclly the time scale and things I need to do to promote a healthy tank.
The tank was established (or so I was told) containing two lake malawi cichlids one sucking loach and a plec
For transportation purposes I dropped the water by approx 75% and refilled when back at home All media was left as was (apart from filter media which I rinsed with warm water
As I realised that the cichlids were not an ideal starter fish I traded them in with my local store along with the plec which looked imo to large for the tank and introduced 6 platys and 6 black neons.
Within two days I had lost 4 neons and one platy. I tested the water and found using tetra 5-1 test strips NO3 - 100mg/l and NO2- 0 mg/l All other readings seem within acceptable parameters.
My main question is Why would this be as the tank "was established " ??
I am thinking of putting in live plants as the enviroment is just rock and sand at the moment - would this help ??
Also a strange happening is that I have spotted One platy fry - how could this happen the platys have only been in the tank 6 days and I bought them as juveniles (also looking at pics on the web they all look like males) .
As I have said I am very new to this area of fish keeping have had coldwater ponds for years but have already beome obsessed with the whole new world in my living room.

 

[Duck and Dive]

Hi and welcome! Don't be suprised in finding baby platies in the tank, sometimes even juveniles can breed!

 

[Curiosity101]

I think the problem may have arisen when you washed the filter media in warm water. If it was warm water straight from a tap and had not been de-chlorinated then it is very likely that you killed off a significant % of bacteria.
Also when you refilled the tank, did it still have the cichlids and pleco in? Also did you de-chlorinate the water before putting it into the tank?

Test strips aren't very accurate by the way, liquid test kits are much better. Chances are the NO3 (nitrate) reading wasn't quite that high, but by the sounds of it, was pretty high to begin with. Maybe you should ask your friend how often they did a water change? If they didn't do them very often, eg. 20-30% a week, then this would have led to a huge rise in nitrates over time.

I hope this now answers the question as to why this would happen with an 'established' aquarium.

You are now in a fish-in cycle situation. Ie. the filter is no longer cycled, yet you have fish. The filter is not dealing with the ammonia they are producing and so it is building up in the water poisoning the fish. Chances are this is what killed your fish. If I remember correctly the test strips don't test for ammonia? But if they did I think you'd find it was pretty high.
I suggest going out to buy a liquid test kit, even if it's just to test for ammonia.

As a precaution I'd do a 50% water change now, not forgetting to add de-chlorinator of course.

And plants would help as they can use both ammonia and nitrates as a nitrogen source, which they need to grow. Ammonia is the preferred source and therefore they would help to extract some from the water.
However you would have to be very careful because if you water is high in ammonia then the plants may well struggle at first to adjust. You would have to be very aware of their condition and remove any dead or rotting leaves as soon as you see them.

 

[Realtree]

Thankyou for your help
Yes the cichlids and plec were in the tank when I first refilled.
I have done what you have suggested and when I have tested again this morning results are the same apart from ph which has dropped into the alkaline band.
Going to LFS today to obtain a liquid testing kit and some plants.
All fish in tank look very healthy and are moving well - although no sign of Speck (the platy fry)
One other question
What do I feed the loach ?? if anything ?? also can someone help me identify it as it looks like a stone loach in pics but when it has been hiding in the rocks and caves it appears with a bold black stripe on both sides which disappears if it stays in the lit areas for a while.
Thanx again Mark

 

[Curiosity101]

If you say dropped ie. below 7. This is actually acidic not alkaline. And could be a sign of ammonia in the water...(seeing as you said the test results were the same, so no increase in nitrates). Can't really say for certain if the tank is now un-cycled or not until you can test the water.
Fish may look healthy now, but if the tank is now un-cyled then ammonia poisoning will affect them eventually.

I have kuhli loaches and to be honest I don't target feed them, they tend to get hold of little bits and pieces the other fish drop. But....
[URL="http/www.loaches.com/species-index/pictorial-species-search-index"]http/www.loaches.com/species-index/picto...es-search-index[/URL]

A good little website I found. You look at the shape of your loach and try to match it, then match the colours etc etc. Give it a go (it may take more than one attempt...) and see if you can ID him.

 

[Realtree]

Thankyou for the website
My loach is without doubt - Gyrinocheilus aymonierily - identical to the pic on the site.
Will post my water test results for you to look at
many thanx Mark

 

[Curiosity101]

Uh oh. It's a Chinese algae eater? I recommend removing it from the tank asap. Preferably give it to a fish shop, or to someone who knows they'll be able to keep them safely.
The problem is they are notorious fish killers. The neons should be ok, but I'm pretty sure it'll have a go at the platys, and it will definitely have a go at any large bodied fish such as dwarf + honey gouramis etc. (If you ever got any)
Also they can grow quite large...

Did you get your water stats yet?

 

[Realtree]

After a lenghty talk with my LFS
I was told to not bother with an ammonia test as the nitrates in the water proved that the ammonia was minimal
and in turn advised to purchase the tetra 6 in 1 test strips., also a product called nitrate minus.
I was told that the problem at the moment was that there were too many fish in my tank and that was the probable cause of the recent deaths.
This was on sunday - I have been away and my son tested the water after the introduction of the nitrate minus and it had fallen to 50.
Today on my return home I retested and found the nitrates to be again 100.
I proceeded immediately with a 20% water change - since then I have noticed that one of the Black neons is in distress (looks like swim bladder problems)
All other levels on the test strip are seemingly ok.
Guy at the LFS seemed to think that all would be well in 7 days which will be sunday - fingers crossed

As regards to the Loach - it shows no signs of attacking the oher fish - happy just sticking to the glass lol

 

[gaz gun man]

welcome mate, you know Realtree is rubbish dont ya

 

[Realtree]

Realtree will always be good for standing out in a crowd LOL
Retested this afternoon
NO3 100mg/l
NO2 0mg/l
GH 8 od
KH 6 od
PH 7.2
CL2 0

The black neon unfortunately didn't make it - leaving one very lonely neon left

 

[Curiosity101]

Fine, completely disregard any of the advice I gave. I'm sure the lfs which recommended several high profit margin products really had both you and your fishes best interests at heart.

Edit: Oh by the way, could you quickly test your tap water to find out what it contains. Particularly if it has chlorine in it.

 

[Realtree]

Tap water result somewhat confusing
NO3 25 mg/l
NO2 0 mg/l
GH 8 od
KH 6 od
PH 6
CL2 1.5

Sorry if it seems that I went against your advice actually took that advice to LFS who then gave me the advice mentioned after doing a water test.

 

[Kizz]

Well Curiosity's advice is bang on ! Go to the search button on this site and search LFS rant Or just LFS and see how many people are mis-informed by them . These people are only there to make a profit especially if your going to P@H and the like . You do seem to be going through a fish in cycle the fact that your tap No3 readings are 20% lower than your tank shows this .

Go back and purchase the APi master test kit regardless of what LFs says you really need to be testing for everything INCLUDING ammonia . Ammonia causes many problems in fish including ammonia burns and the like . The test strip's are really innacurate . If you purchase the APi kit and test with both you'll see the difference in results for yourself

You can ask anyone who actually cares for fish that most LFS's talk utter pants .Then ask someone who looks after fish and they'll tell you a completley different story

There is hundreds of very knowelegable people on this site with hundreds of years of experience between them . My better judgement would to be believe this site than any LFS

 

[Realtree]

The old guy at the LFS told me he had kept tropicals for 20+ years and yep I'm the sucker who took it hook line and sinker
The shop is a large one connected to a pet and garden centre and has a massive range of tanks and fish including marine and coldwater. I searched the shelves before talking to them and there was definitely no API master test kits only seperate liquid test kits and nothing for ammonia - which is what I asked him for from curioustys advice.
As I said I'm very niave re keeping tropicals and I odviously had that printed on my forehead in Bold letters
live and learn eh
very grateful for all your advice

 

[Realtree]

Just thought
When I originally got the tank (aqua one AR 510) the filter cartridges needed replacing - which the LFS didn't stock - was told to replace them with carbon impregnated sponge - which I did
Could this be adversely affecting anything ??