Tour De France (i'm Cycling!)

[Angel47]

Thanks for the reply Waterdrop, but thats what I'm confused about. I haven't been adding any ammonia. I've only added a little bit and that was on day 3. I've not put any more ammonia in since as it hasn't dropped below 4. Should it have dropped to 0 before now as my nitrites are so high?

Thanks Maz

 

[waterdrop]

Have you got any rocks in there? Yes, that is a little strange.

Let us know all the things in the tank and anything being added to the tank.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angel47]

Nope, no rocks.

I have some plastic plants, a large ornamental tree root, an ornamental buddha head, a temple ruin, black gravel, a bubble stone (which I'm not using as the pump is a little loud), the heater, filter and a little thermometer. All have been in since Day 1 except for the temple ruin which I added in the middle of last week.

Thanks Maz

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, you should consider pulling out the three ornaments and turning them over and performing a vinegar test (see if vinegar drops fizz when they get on the substance the ornament is made of) on them.

Then Ideally, drop them in individual buckets for a couple weeks and see if the tank nitrite drops and one or more of the ornament buckets has a rising nitrite.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angel47]

Thanks I will give that a try.

I take it they shouldn't fizz?

Should I only perform the bucket test on the ones that fizz?

Will that mean if I find an offending ornament I wont be able to have it in the tank?

What if none of them fizz?!



Maz

 

[waterdrop]

Sorry, really shouldn't have mixed the two completely different tests together! The test that goes to your nitrite issue is the one where you just sit them and do nitrite tests, simple as that and just like your common sense would tell you. Its probably a long shot but worth finding out if its a rare object that gives off nitrite.

The "fizz" test is totally different and I just thought it would be a "handy" time to do it. The drops of vinegar just tell you if they fizz that the object is made with Calcium Carbonate or stuff that has it like limestone or shell or coral and the reason its good info to know is that this will be chemically raising the hardness and pH in your tank as is slowly dissolves.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angel47]

Thanks Waterdrop.

I shall endeavour to look on this as an adventure totally separate from waiting for my fish and then that should ease the frustration of not having them yet!
I'm at work at the moment and will be for another couple of hours so I will try to do as you suggest either tonight or tomorrow.

Maz

 

[Angel47]

Hello there,

well my test results for today (day 8) are the same as yesterday's more or less

Ammonia - 2.0 / 4.0

Nitrite - 5 +

Nitrate - 20

I've taken my 3 ornaments out and segregated them. I've got a kitchen full of buckets now All passed the fizz test i.e. - no fizz.
Waterdrop, you have mentioned that something may be affecting my nitrite count. Is it more likely to be that than something affecting my ammonia count? Oh Lordy, all this science stuff is way over my head. I thought the fact that I had nitrites so quickly was too good to be true.

Maz

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Maz

OK, great that the ornaments are not going to be raising your pH, we've put that to rest. I have to tell you it feels weird that somebody on the other side of the world has bulky jars on their kitchen counter because of something I said. Please apologize to your husband if its difficult for him to make his coffee in the morning! I like my counter clean when I start grinding coffee beans and doing all my arcane coffee-making rituals! Well, lets just think of it as a good thing to have our "ornament tests" and hopefully feel they aren't giving off anything that we can detect.

To try and answer your question, my real feeling is that the prawns jumpstarted your fishless cycle in a bit of an unusual way and so basically the somewhat unusual feedback we're getting is simply due to that and before long it will all settle down into the usual thing that we're used to seeing around here. I just thought it would be nice to know that we weren't making a theory about one thing while something else unusual was going on so I thought we might as well be getting the ornament question out of the way as best we can as soon as we can. If none of the jars have strange test changes you can just put the ornaments back in the tank next week. We'll take your baseline for the jars to all be the same as your tap water. Just run tests on them next weekend for ammonia, nitrite, pH and nitrate.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angel47]

Hello Waterdrop

My husband doesn't mind about the ornaments. He's a top bloke. I have had to put them on the floor though so they are a bit out of the way as we don't have much work surface space. I've just got to remember not to put my foot in them now!!

I didnt de-chlorinate the water for them as I thought it would be ok. Should I have done?

I really hope something happens with my water soon, even if it isn't exactly what we want. There's nothing more frustrating than 'no change, no change, no change' .......

thank you Waterdrop, I really do appreciate your help (and everyone else's help) with this.

 

[Angel47]

If my nitrites are so high, then why aren't they 'eating' the ammonia

thanks

Maz

 

[Angel47]

Well, for what its worth, here are my results for today:

Ammonia - 2.0 / 4.0

Nitrite - 2.0

Nitrate - 20

So no real change again apart from maybe a little drop in nitrites if I'm reading it correctly. Although the nearest colour match for nitrates was 20 I thought that maybe that was a little lighter too.

I really just don't get it My ammonia test turns dark green within a minute and hasn't changed for days. As I said earlier, if my nitrites are high why aren't they getting rid of my ammonia? Do you think it would be a good idea to do a water change?

Thanks Maz

 

[waterdrop]

Maz, are you the one who finally found some Jeyes KleenOff from some little place? I think some of the UK folks have mentioned that the "KleenOff" name is applied to a whole line of different ammonia cleaners and I'm just wondering if there's any chance yours had surfactants or something else "foreign" in it? Just grasping at straws here...

Perhaps we should indeed try a 90% water change and recharge of ammonia assuming you look closely at the ammonia again and decide its ok. And keep giving us reminders every other little post or so of what day you're on, what phases you seem to have been through already or not.. its easy for us to get mixed up between all the simultaneous cases.

Dont' forget though, no matter how many little "issues" we humans get off on, trying to figure the cycle out, the usual thing going on is just that the growth of these particular two chemolithoautotrophic bacteria is quite normally just very slow and unpredictable much of the time!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angel47]

Hi Waterdrop
I did find the Kleen-Off in a little hardware shop. I mentioned at the time it was one of those shops that smell of bycicle oil and shoe polish. I've just looked on the web and found this about its composition:

"More usually sold as a powerful cleaner it is ~10-35% Ammonium Hydroxide (NH3), that is ammonia in water."

That was off of an aquarium site and it goes on to say what should be added to your tank. It doesn't mention any other ingredients and i remember looking at the bottle when I got it to check for surfactants and stuff but there were none listed on the bottle that I could see (I'm at work at the moment so cant double check). However, I must say that I used the forum calculator and only added enough to boost my ammonia from 4.0 to 5.0, so it was only a little bit.

I will check my water tonight as usual as I haven't got time for a water change (Wednesday is dance night so I'm off out lindy-hopping ). I'll try to do it tomorrow. Just one thought...I know it sounds silly but is there an easy way to go about it??

Thanks

Maz

 

[Angel47]

okay, so before I do my water change, hopefully tomorrow, here is a complete run down of events and results should anyone wish to cogitate over them

Set tank up, placed in ornaments, gravel, filter, heater, plastic plants. Added pop sock of 5-6 raw king prawns. Left overnight. Temp Set at 30c to aid cycling.

Day One of Testing (Took prawns out of tank).
Date: 6/7/09 @ 17:00hrs
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 20
Further info: Water now cloudy and slightly smelly. 19:35hrs added 1.3ml of 'Kleen-off' ammonia.

Day Two
Date: 7/07/09 @ 16:40hrs
Ammonia: 4.0 or slightly above
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 20
PH: 7.6
Further info: Water slightly better.

Day Three
Date: 8/07/09 @ 16:45hrs
Ammonia: 5.0+
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: 40
Further info: 17:25hrs added 60ml of 'Cycle' (bacteria builder product). Water nearly clear.

Day Four
Date: 9/07/09 @ 22:00hrs
Ammonia: 5.0+ but under 8.0
Nitrite: 1.5
Nitrate: 40
Further info: Water clear.

Day Five
Date: 10/07/09 @ 18:15hrs
Ammonia: 5+ but under 8.0
Nitrite: 5.0
Nitrate: 40
Further info: None.

Day Six
Date: 11/07/09 @ 19:45hrs
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite: 5.0
Nitrate: 20
Further info: None.

Day Seven
Date: 12/07/09 @ 17:00hrs
Ammonia: 2.0 / 4.0
Nitrite: 5.0+
Nitrate: 10 / 20
Further info: None.

Day Eight
Date: 13/07/09 @ 20:15hrs
Ammonia: 2.0 / 4.0
Nitrite: 5.0+
Nitrate: 20
Further info: After conducting above test I took ornaments out of the tank, as suggested by Waterdrop, and placed them into separate buckets for individual water testing in approx 1 week. Vinegar test for calcium carbonate in ornaments proved negative - no fizz.

Day Nine
Date: 14/07/09 @ 19:45hrs
Ammonia: 2.0 / 4.0
Nitrite: 2.0
Nitrate: 20
Further info: None.

Day Ten (today)
Date: 15/07/09 @ 17:30hrs
Ammonia: 2.0
Nitrite: 2.0
Nitrate: 10
PH: 7.6
Further info: Considering 90% water change