Too Much Oxygen?

[Teelie]

Too much science. I think a more accurate term would have been to say you can add too many air bubbles to the water which can then cause embolisms similar to what happens when you dive deep into the ocean and rise too fast. It's not the same thing but the same concept, dangerous air bubbles in the blood stream.

 

[Durbkat]

I'd remove one of the filters and put the filter pads from that filter into the other one because I believe that its to much filtering, not as in overfiltering but as in the current is to strong. I have one and it gives plenty of oxygen and and keeps the tank clean and it seems to strong for my fish as most of them stay on the right side of the tank. As for the cloudyness what are your water stats e.g ammonia, nitrate, nitrites? It could possibley be a bacterial bloom.

 

[Bignose]

Teelie, it looks to me that the problem was that a microbubble probably got stuck in the fish's gill. Not oversaturation. Like SH and I have said, it takes some pretty unusual circumstances to over saturate the water, circumstances are exceptionally unlikely to occur in a home aquarium.

 

[Trance2006]

My staats of right now are

Ammonia 0
Nitrite/nitrate are both 0
ph a steady 7.4
Temp 80 F

But why would A bacteria bloom happen. I mean I took 20 G of water and an entire filter itself from my cichlids ank and put it onto the 20 gallon. Also during a abcteria bloom is it wise to not use an air pump or wise. IE will the bacteria bloom suffocate the fish?

 

[pokagon55]

I have here of this, it is called "Gas Bubble Disease" This is a good article on this...http/www.thekrib.com/Diseases/gas-bubble.html
It is about supersaturation of the water with to much gas at cooler temps. and the water being under pressure. This causes to many bubbles to form, I think.
http/www.bonniesplants.com/sick_injured_.../gas_bubble.htm
And I think what TEELIE was talking about was something called "The Bends" It is when you surface to fast and Nitrogen has desolved in the blood ,under pressure ,expands very fast causing bubbles to form to clog the blood vessels. I don't think that is the same thing as gas bubble disease but they maybe simular.

 

[Teelie]

No, the bends are different but as I said, the concept of bubbles in the blood is similar. The microbubbles is a more accurate term to use but it still is a result of too much aeration going on in the aquarium. Too many filters or too many bubble wands, etc.

 

[pokagon55]

No, the bends are different but as I said, the concept of bubbles in the blood is similar. The microbubbles is a more accurate term to use but it still is a result of too much aeration going on in the aquarium. Too many filters or too many bubble wands, etc.

ok but the bends would be a internal result and the gas bubble disease would be an external result, right? So they would be different. so the result of to much aeration would be gas bubble disease and not the bends. And I don't see how microbubbles would be a more accurate term with two different problems? Maybe simular but a more accurate term....um? I don't know about that.

 

[Teelie]

Not exactly. The gas bubbles would enter through the gills or mouth and into the stomach.

 

[pokagon55]

Not exactly. The gas bubbles would enter through the gills or mouth and into the stomach.

ok so that would be external? To much bubble wands or whatever. Because this is caused from to much pumping under pressure which would result in a supersturation of gases. IE. bubble wands or air tubes etc.

 

[steelhealr]

Bubbling wands do not cause 'supersaturation of gases'.

Dissolved air bubbles or microbubbles have NO EFFECT on gills in SW species. I will look into the effect on FW species. SW fish live around reefs where waves frequently crash over them and dissolve microbubbles with no negative effect.

The 'bends' or decompression sickness occurs when humans exceed the limits of pressure exposure at depth, either underwater or digging tunnels (Caisson's disease). The increased pressure causes supersaturation of nitrogen gas. If a person ascends too quickly, the nitrogen gas comes out of solution and can either block small capillaries or cause pressure within nervous tissue.

Bubbling air within an aquarium will increase water movement, improve circulation at the surface and thus eliminate dead areas of water at the bottom of the tank and return aerated water to the bottom. It WILL NOT supersaturate oxygen NOR increase oxygen levels greater than what we are breathing outside the tank. SH

 

[Teelie]

So then, as you seem to know everything on this, what does happen when fish die from these mysterious causes related to oxygen? I have yet to see an explanation, just a lot of discrediting which doesn't answer anything and isn't even directly discrediting what I'm saying. I'm not going to get into all the boring scientific details over what happens though you seem to have no trouble doing so. I don't think anyone else is bothering to read through it either.

So subsituting words to make it easier to understand to a general audience seems to cause nothing but constant admonishments from you over how it's wong. Explain this in a way everyone else can understand or stop trying to contradict me at every turn for attempting to use simple explanations for what occurs. Of course they're not entirely accurate, I even went out of my way numerous times to state that but it doesn't get through.

 

[steelhealr]

Teelie....I am boarded in Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine....sorry if this is bothering you...just trying to clear up confusion. Perhaps you can reword what the exact thing is that you are confused about and perhaps I can help you out. Fish don't die from oxygen. They can die from supersaturated oxygen, but, that must be achieved with compression, not a bubbling airstone or filter.

Marine fish are not susceptible to microbubbles. I HAVE now read some posts on the net that claim bubbles can interfere with a FW fish's gills.

If you chose not to read through a post and learn, then that is your choice.It does NOT relieve me of my responsibility to make sure that others get correct information. SH

 

[pokagon55]

I am by far not an expert in this topic. But from what I read on this it did not seem poss. to have a bubble stone or filter cause this type of problem. I do konw that a fish can in fact get the bends as do divers. If you like I will post that article about a whale that ended up with the bends. So this dosen't just happen to humans.

I had a friend that took out 50% of the water form their tank and then filled it back by just dumping the water in and that in it self caused the fish to die....Would that be like the gas bubble diseas? Would that be simular?

 

[kramers]

OK, the original intention wasn't to get a huge superheated debate going here. I also spoke with someone at my LFS yesterday and she had also mentioned a bacterial bloom and wasn't quite convinced that too much O2 was the cause of the cloudiness. Another thing that I hadn't even thought about until then was possibly over-medicating when adding water due to evaporation. Instead of treating just the H2O that was being added, in some respects, I was treating the whole tank. But, after reading some of the posts, I did first notice the haze after adding in another length of air wand

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Royce and Kris

OK, the original intention wasn't to get a huge superheated debate going here.

Don't worry about that at all; this is a great thread. It's good when some of our more scientifically minded members get to putting their heads together. Everyone gets to learn something from it. But of course, this might not be solving your immediate problem, so I can understand your concern.

Another thing that I hadn't even thought about until then was possibly over-medicating when adding water due to evaporation. Instead of treating just the H2O that was being added, in some respects, I was treating the whole tank.

Let me clarify this. Do you mean over-medicating with dechlorinator or are you treating your fish with some other kind of medicine due to illness. If you mean dechlorinator, I don't think it's a problem. Those of us who use a python to do water changes always add enough to treat the entire tank and have no trouble because of it.

If you mean you are medicating the tank due to illness, that could mean something. Some medicines are known to reduce the oxygen level in the water and it's a good idea to use more aeration to compensate for it.

If you are losing a significant amount of water due to evaporation, perhaps you are using too much aeration. I think evaporation might lead to concentration of minerals etc. and I hope this might be a situation our science folks will comment on.

BTW, what are you feeding your fish? Perhaps that is contributing to your problem.