Think I Might Have Dived In Too Soon!

[Soloflux]

Hi there, well as you can imagine from my post being here... I'm new to the hobby.

Quick run down of how I got into it would be quite simply, I got caught by the profit making shops and their "goldfish" tanks (like the Elite 21) and was told I could keep up to SIX fantails/orandas/black moors in it... in 21 litres?? Not a chance... but I found out after buying 2 black moors and a fantail but I know someone who has a massive tank for coldwater so he took them off my hands. Why do shops allow sales like this?

Anyways, that was almost 3 months and since then I have got a new tank (2ft x 1ft x 1ft) which I think I may have gone astray again! I went out and bought some mollies. 4 to be exact. Since then I have found out that I have 2 males and 2 females. I know the 2 females are females because I mistakenly diagnosed the with SBD... turns out they're pregnant lol not SBD at all! (And yes I have added salt )

Anyways... my question is, what size tank should I have for mollies to breed? I intend to get two more females now I know I'm looking for. So to clarify...

I have 2m mollies, 2f mollies and intend on buying 2 more females. I want to breed them but I want enough space to do it. I have the Elite 21 tank still which is cycled and running with some plants atm so I could use this for fry yes? (the filter in the 21 litre is the DIY one I found on here using a food pot by Sam, so ty for that!)

Thanks for any advice.

 

[waterdrop]

There are a number of members very good with mollies so I'm sure one of them will see your post. I believe there is a large difference in maximum size of common black mollies versus the larger green sailfins?

Your current 15G/57L tank would seem to be large enough for the max size of the current 4 black mollies but beyond that it would be better if the mollie knowledgeable would comment.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Soloflux]

Hey thanks waterdrop,

Hopefully they will. I wouldn't want to lose any of them due to over population. Plus, if there is a chance the tank is more than sufficient, how many more could I get there? If any at all? I think mollies are beautiful and definitely prefer them to any other common LFS tropical stocks.

Also, for the molly experts, what fish could I keep with these guys? OTHER than guppies?

I don't really want any plecs, I currently have 6 Yamato shrimps and 2 bamboo shrimp in there with them (and they are so much more interesting than plecs imo)

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Soloflux.
I am afraid that a tiny tank like a 21 litre is just too small for molly fry after about a week or two. I just let my surviving molly breeder female drop her last batch of fry in a 55 gallon. That is a 4 foot long tank, just for comparison. She is no longer with me, after providing several drops over about 1 1/2 years. Salt is not an issue with mollies but water that is low in mineral content can cause them lots of problems. My tap water runs at about 12 degrees of GH and the same KH, so my mollies get plenty of mineral content in their water. The basic requirements are simple for a common molly. They like their water hard with a rather high pH. If you have started with very low mineral content and a neutral to low pH, you can get a benefit from adding sea salt, like you might use for a reef tank. Do not use so-called aquarium salt, you are making brackish water which is a mix of sea water and river water. You could also get decent molly water by using crushed shell or crushed coral to raise both pH and hardness. The crushed calcium carbonate has the added advantage of allowing you to keep any number of common aquarium fish that would have not done well in a brackish tank. If you get serious about mollies, you will end up feeding fish food that is high in vegetable content too. Mine get a spirulina flake as their basic diet with added frozen foods and high protein flake or pellets as a treat. Once in a while I also give them some fresh green veggies from my dinner plate. This is my recently deceased breeder female with a few of her fry.

 

[Soloflux]

Hey OM47,

Thanks for the advice! I'm pleased to hear about the salt! I actually have tap water with a PH of 7.8 but not sure about GH/KH (Got the API master test kit so not sure on that one). Because I have some Bamboo Shrimp in the tank with mollies, I have added several shells (crushed and whole for decor) so that's good news!

A lfs has offered to take the fry off my hands as a trade in for things I need (They only have a small number of Liberty Mollies which I believe is due to no trust worthy source of any other mollies. I had to travel 35miles for a fs that had some mollies I liked the look of) so I can stock up on any additives I need in exchange for the fry. So I was hoping the 21 litre would allow me to raise them long enough to hand them over?

The 15G is the main tank for now (hoping to increase soon but the 4ft one I was promised had an accident at its previous home and ended up in thousands of tiny pieces So how many mollies could I safely keep in there? It's well planted and has a filter designed for a tank twice the size (originally due to the goldfish as a temporary fix until I could re-home them) with the flow reduced so the fish aren't flung around.

Thanks for the advice again!

 

[waterdrop]

Soloflux, the crushed shells will be much more effective at raising your hardness if you put them in a mesh bag and into the filter so that more water passes across their surfaces.

OM, sorry to hear about mama molly. I believe we've enjoyed really nice pictures of her several times! She will be missed, so you'll have to give us the occasional glimpse at her offspring!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Soloflux]

yeah sorry about your breeder OM47, she looks like a beautiful fish. I have 2 silver, 1 black and 3 orange and black (one of which is a sailfin) but they dont look as pretty as her.

I am hoping to go and get 2 more females today and I think I might be taking the sailfin back. I just returned from holiday in cornwall (where I also popped in to Tri-Mar aquatic shop, that place is awesome!) and found that one of my males has a damaged anal fin and then realised why. As I sat and watched my black mollie feed, intrigued by the sheer size of her stomach compared to last week, I saw the sailfin swimming under the other males and take the fins in his mouth! So he's obviously not happy.

Now I heard that getting the m>f ratio right will prevent the agreesion from males but I've also read somewhere that by simply adding more females wont STOP an already agressive fish, if that right? If so I will have to return him which will be a shame. He is a magnificent fish and definately the Alpha Male lol.

I'll post some pics if I can soon.

 

[Azeron]

Yeah, swap them for store credit, best you will get.


Not sure how much you will get, the larger the more money (just near adult sized)

 

[OldMan47]

You might also explore the option of just returning the other males and keeping the one that you like. A single male molly would do fine with a harem of 5 or 6 females. A 15 gallon with 6 mollies is starting to be pretty full already. I use a 10 gallon for my female to be in for a fry drop, not as a home for multiple adult mollies. In order to truly see the potential of your mollies, they need lots of swimming room, clean water and abundant food that is high in vegetable content. If you can supply all of those conditions, the typical juvenile mollies that you get at a pet shop can really shine after a few months of growing up.

 

[Haych]

welcome to TFF

but yes, once a fish becomes aggressive they always seem that way, and i always found sailfins worse too

 

[Soloflux]

Well I went down to the fish shop yesterday and swapped 2 males for 2 young females. One is very shy and I have hardly seen her. the other doesnt care less where she is lol She's swimming around studying EVERYTHING. The more outgoing one is already pregnant too I noticed. Not really what I was after so quick but nevermind, more store credit

I decided to keep the sailfin, he was only aggressive towards to the males and was actually pretty protective of females, not a trait I've heard of in mollies? If you put you hand in the tank, to move something for example, he would swim in between you and the females. This normal? lol So I kept him. Although I am beginning to wish I had kept the larger Silver male. He was awesome and friendly but not as visually stunning as this sailfin. It was that one and the sailfin who were constantly fishing. And I mean constantly! Sooner or later one of them would have got too stressed out and I couldnt deal with that.

I have a new breeding/isolator box in the tank ready in case I miss the first signs on giving birth too because the first one to show signs on being pregnant is also a very shy one so watching for her to find somewhere secluded and out of the way is impossible because she's found them all before she even started to grow the bump! So being a first time daddy of molly fry, and molly keeper, with a shy female ready to pop out the fry... I'm pretty much clueless as to when something is going to happen with her! lol The rest of the females are pretty active. The shy one I bought yesterday has slowly started to come out her hiding place, some bloodworm convinced her of that. And she's mingled a bit so hopefully with the others I'll know when they are searching for a birthing area and I can keep an eye on them. If I dont manage to move them BEFORE they start to give birth I have the breeder. Is that ok?

Soloflux, the crushed shells will be much more effective at raising your hardness if you put them in a mesh bag and into the filter so that more water passes across their surfaces.

~~waterdrop~~

With regards to the crushed shells, I cant place them inside the filter as such but would one of the those universal media bags work if I placed it *under* the filter where the main up flow is into the filter?

 

[OldMan47]

You would do better placing the bag of calcium carbonate in the return flow rather than in the area of the inlet. The return of a filter is usually a fairly concentrated flow, while the flow into a filter is usually coming from all directions and thus a lower flow rate in any one area. Either way will work better than not using it but to optimize the flow the return is a better spot.