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Think i may do Dr Tims cycle

Started DrTims yesterday added the one and only the 4 drops per gallon as it said on the bottle, 24 hours later did first test.
Ammonia no 0.5
Nitrite no 0.5
Ph test 8
It says next I add another four drops Ammonia if yes will do tomorrow morning. The only thing I did the test at 9 pm, and I noticed you should do it under natural light, I could do another test tomorrow morning but I sure it was accurate.
 
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Follow Dr Tim's method, whatever he says.


It is known that fluorescent lights - strips and the old energy saving compact fluorescent bulbs - make the liquid in the ammonia test look greener than it really is. Those bulbs are no longer sold so unless you still have some you'll probably have LED lights. Those come in different colours (2700K, 3000K, 4000K, 7000K etc) and I don't know if that makes a difference.
I suppose you could test tap water for ammonia in daylight, then do the same test after dark with the room light on and see if both tests match the same colour on the chart.
When testing, the tube should be held against a white part of the chart and not in direct sunlight.
 
Yes will add more ammonia tomorrow four drops per gallon for a 27. 5 gallon tank 108 drops.
 
"Yes will add more ammonia tomorrow four drops per gallon for a 27. 5 gallon tank 108 drops."

First when you say the tank is 27.5 gallons, is that after you reduced the volume to account for substrate and decor and for the fact the tank is not filled to the very top of the glass. I normally suggest one reduce the advertised volume of the tank by 10-15% based on how much substrate and decor. Unless one actually measred how much water they added to the tank after all the subtrate and decor was in it, the best we can then do is to estimate and hence the 10-15% number I suggest. I think somewhere on his site Dr. Tim may actually suggest 20% but I may not be accurate on that.

Bear in mind that 4 drops of Dr Tim's will produce 2.56 ppm on an API style test kit. The number we don want to exceed on that test kit is 6.4 ppm. But on the test scale used by Dr. T and scientists in general that would read 5 ppm.

I have disposable pipettes which hold 1 ml or 3 ml. You can always get a baby doser syringe with ML on it. I posted this info on this earlier in this thread. I use Dr. Tim's One and Only and used to use his ammonium chloride- first in the 1 drop/gal. and then the 4 drops/gal. But I needed so much ammonium chloride for what I do that I bought it dry and I mix my own solution. However, as you should note 108 drops is a lot. Fritz offers a huge dry Jug which I will never finish and also what it calls Fishless Fuel which is their equivalent to the Dr. Tim's product. So you have a choice.

If you recall I posted this earlier in this thread:
you can use the following information from Dr. Tim:
1 ml = 20 drops
5 ml = 1 teaspoon = 100 drops
15 ml = 1 tablespoon = 300 drops

So, you can add 5 ml + 8 drops = 108, if your gallonage was accurate. If you did not adjust the water volume by 15%, then you added more ammonia than needed but no so much as to exceed that 5/6.4 ppm maximum.

Either way you testing indicates the One and only worked great. Ff you added 2.56 ppm it is at .5 as is the nitrite. If you failed to subtract the volume, then you actually added a tad over 3 ppm which is OK but will alter the numbers he posts by a bit.

Bear in mind that when we seed bacteria we are adding both types- ammonia and nitrite ones. So the biggest difference between doing a cycle with added bacteria v.s none, is that the nitrite ones are there at the start. So not only will you ammonia dro pretty fast but there will also not be the sort of nitrite spike we get when we do not seed bacteria.

things look OK as far as i can tell. The way to know your cycle is complete is that you can add the ammonia dose and when you test in 24 hours you get O ppm for both ammonia and nitrite. At that point you can fully stock your tank all in one go. If you cannot being stocking in a day or two after hitting the 0/0 target, then you will need to keep adding the same ammonia dose every 2 or 3 days. The bacteria do not need ammonia every day but they should not be without beyond that time. If you feel better about it, every tother day is fine.

However, your nitrate will b building up and it too can stall a cycle in high levels. You can do a big water change to lower nitrate but do it shortly before dosing more ammonia not after. If you do not need to delay, be sure to do a big water change for nitrate before you add the fish.
 
How much ammonia should I put in tomorrow
, is 108 too much I've worked it out by calculator 15% off is 88 drops I will add this tomorrow.
 
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It appears to safe enough. But you did not answer the question anout the 27.5 gals. Is that after you deducted for substrate and decor and the fact it isn't filled to the fery top. Or is it what is the advertised volume. Or did you actually measure it when it went into the tank?

Your 108 drops will produce different concentrations based on the answer. So 27.5 x 4 = 110 drops, 27 x 4 = 108 drops and 85% of 27.5 = 23.374 x 4 = 93 or 94 drops. But let's suppose you should have added on 93 drops which would be 15 fewer than 108. That would be 16% more than intended by Dr. Tim. So instead of the 2 ppm on his scale or the 2.56 on the API scale, the result would be 2.32 and 2.96 ppm.

If you look at the fishless cycling article here, it targets 3 ppm as the base ammonia dose.

I think you are OK at the 108. Depending on what the actual volume is, you will not exceed the 5 ppm as nitrogen or 6.4 on an API kit. So contiue following Dr. Tim's directions. I like the one's I wrote better but thet are not written for those who add bacteria at the start and or those who have live plantes in the tank. Either one or both greatly alter the test results one will get and that makes it hard to impossible to follow the directions in the article.
 
I just worked it out the tank holds 27.5 gallons I did not subtract any thing for decor so I came up with 108 drops, but having taken 15% off it will be 88 drops, so going by Dr tims sheet I dose with ammonia tomorrow, just hope this is okay,
 
Just did a strip test, I know it's not the most accurate I will do the liquid test as in dr kits log.
Nitrate ppm 80
Nitrite ppm 10
General hardness cacophony ppm 150
Free chlorine ppm 0
Total alkalinity ppm 180
Ph test 6.8
Do you or essjay think it would be okay to go ahead with today being day 3 to dose with 88 drops of ammonia instead of 108, or should I go less.
 
I used to have a Rio 125, the same tank as Country joe has. I did once measure the amount of water with substrate and decor in the tank, it was 105 litres, or 27.7 US gallons.



The manufacturer's quoted volume of the tank is 125 litres/33 US gallons as that's the name of the tank. The measurements to the top of the tank give a volume of 146 litres/39 US gallons. Because the light tubes sit below the rim of the tank, there is a mark inside the tank for the maximum height of water. The 125 litre/33 gallon quoted volume is up to this line with no substrate or decor in the tank.
 
I just did a liquid test,
Ammonia no .2
Nitrite no 4
Ph test 8,
So I suppose I can add my 88 drops Ammonia today ?
 
What does Dr Tim's method say? Does that say to add ammonia at certain times or when certain readings have been reached?
 
Day 3 add drops
If ph drops below 7 perform a 25% water change.
If ammonia or nitrite levels are over 5 ppm nh3-n skip the next addition of ammonia drops, according to my latest liquid test its okay to add ammoniaim sure its right it was quite difficult to get the right colour match for nitrite, so if it's okay with the 15% of for interior decorations I would add 88 drops.
Day 9 if both nh3 and not are near 0 add fish. Day 14 do a 25% water change sorry on day 6 you add 4 drops per gallon of ammonia.
 
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Since the volume of water in the tank when there's substrate etc in there is around 100 litres or 26.4 gallons, use the dosage for 26 gallons.

TwoTankAmin was warning that the manufacturer's volume usually includes the air space above the water but Juwel tanks don't because there's a max line for water as the lights, which are suspended below the rim of the tank, have to be above water.
TwoTankAmin also points out that when there's substrate etc, that takes up some of the volume.

Using the dimensions of the tank to work out the volume, the tank is 81 x 36 x 50 cm = 146 litres or 39 US gallons.
The volume up to the maximum water level marker is 125 litres or 33 US gallons.
With substrate etc in the tank the water volume is around 100 litres/26.4 US gallons. I measured the volume of water in mine as 105 litres but your substrate could be deeper than mine was.
 
One of the biggest mistakes made by those new to doing fishless cycling is that they mix different methodologies. All this does is confuse one. It is essential to success that one pick a method and then stick to it.

Dt. Tim now suggest that his method should only need 3 ammonia additions in most cases. But we also need to understand that the exact conditions and parameters in a tank determine the time frame of any cycle.

Essentially, once you have chosen the methodology you will use, do not even consider any other methods. You need to either succeed or fail with the chosen method. Mix methods and the odds are failure at worst and confusion, stress and taking more time than needed at best.

The methodology here will always work if one follows it to the letter. It is based exclusively on test results to guide one through the steps. But if one tries to mix this method with how Dr. Tim does it, oops is the likely result.

Also, over the years I have followed Dr. Hovanec's research and thinking, I have seen modifications made to the instructions. His greatest weakness was that it might have become necessary to do diluted testing to know where nitrite levels really are. I believe his changes have reduced that possibility. He is adding less ammonia now than a decade ago. The method here removed any need to do diluted testing. When followed, the method here makes it impossible for nitrite to rise to the level where it stalls a cycle.

When it comes to accomplishing things in our tanks, there are usually multiple ways to do them. As long as these are safe for the fish and, even better, improve conditions, they are fine to use. And solutions generally need to be tank specific. That is why testing during cycling is essential. 3 ppm of ammonia is the same concentration whether the tank is 5 gallons or 500 gallons.

I always suggest that one keeps a diary of cycling. The reason for this is that cycling is a process. Where one might be in the process will determine if ammonia and nitrite are rising, holding steady or dropping. It is a series of test results which enable one to understand where in the process things are and thus what the next step should be. One days worth of readings is not usually informative when one cannot determine from them where in the process things stand.

I am aware of a variety of ways one might use to cycle a tank. This includes a plain vanilla cycle to planted cycle and or the seeding of bacteria. I refuse to call the use of plants a silent cycle because it that is not what it is. Plants use ammonia and plants also host nitrifying bacteria. So they act like seeding being added to a the plain vanilla cycle to make it go faster. And they also change what test results will be during the process. For a number of years I did my fisless cycling a tank at a time and using household ammonia (with no scents etc.).

When I create cycled filters in a bio-farm and then use them to set up and fully stock a new tank, I cannot say when I do this in a matter of hours that the tank wasn't cycled. I would say similar things about using bottled bacteria or a lot of plants to make a tank safe in less time. Somebody cultured the bacteria in the bottle as if they were cycling. Plants have been grown and naturally become hosts to which the bacteria can attach.

In the end, a cycled tank is one which is stocked with fish etc. and in which neither ammonia or nitrite is present in testable amounts using our hobby kits. Of course those kits must be used properly and not be past their expiration dates. And it doesn't matter why the readings are 0, whether it is 100% bacteria as the reason or it is mostly plants doesn't matter. What matters is the 0/0 ppms when we test.
Dr. Tim;s instructions are very clear, just follow them and cut out anything else in your thinking. It should then become a lot easier to know what to do. Here they are. Remember his ppm are using the Nitrogen scale, you need to adjust the numbers higher using the total Ion scale most hobby kits employ):

Whatever the source of your ammonia, the following is the way to proceed. Add the ammonia solution to the aquarium so that the ammonia concentration is between 2 and 3 mg/L (but, as mentioned, do not go above 5 mg/L). Record the amount of liquid you added. If you are not using DrTim’s One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria, wait 2 or 3 days and measure the ammonia and nitrite. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days until you start to see some nitrite. This is a sign that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are starting to work. Add half the initial amount of ammonia you added to the water on day 1. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days. Around day 9 to 12, the ammonia will probably be below 1 mg/L, maybe even 0, but nitrite will be present. Nitrite does not spike until somewhere between days 14 and 20. You want to be careful adding more ammonia because you do not want the nitrite-nitrogen over 5 mg/L as this will start to poison the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. Add a little ammonia every few days (1/4 dose), making sure the nitrite does not go above 5 mg/L. Once you start to see the nitrite decrease, it will drop pretty fast. The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish.
I use 1.280 as the multiplication factor for Total Ammonia since most of it is NH4 . -N below indicates it uses the Nitrogen scale
NH3 = NH3-N * 1.21589
NH4 = NH4-N * 1.28786
NO2 = NO2-N * 3.28443
NO3 = NO3-N * 4.42664
 
I'm on day 5 falling Dr Tims instructions my ammonia reading is now nil but my nitrite has been at 4 for two days, according to the instructions I now add 104 drops of ammonia tomorrow, and then test for two days, then if the ammonia and nitrite levels are at 2. 5 and below I can add fish, then check levels for two days and do a 25% percent water change.
I think I will do another test tomorrow to see if the nitrate comes down from four, if both levels were at 2.5 I would not be happy at adding fish I would want them both to be nil., so I will add the a monia tomorrow then do tests then a water change then it may be a wait till both readings are nil, you have to have patience by the way my nitrate reading today was 80.
 

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