The Starting Point

[HydroPlane]

my tropics starting out in 29g..

 
So Far:
1 Powder Blue Dwarf Grouami
2 bala sharks
1 Clown Loach
1 Black Ghost Knife
1 Angelfish
1 Plecco
 

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[Lolly123]

Hi,

Sorry to start out a post like this but you have a few potentially large problems with your stocking.

Clown loaches need groups and grow big so a 29 gal isn't big enough
The black ghost knife fish grows huge and needs a bigger tank
The Bala sharks grow big and need a bigger tank
As for your plec, is it a bristlenose or common? If its common then unfortunately same applies.

 

[techen]

Bala sharks, Clown loaches and angels in a 29G? >.>

 

[JenJ]

Bala sharks, Clown loaches and angels in a 29G? >.>

Don't forget the BGK and pleco...

Lovely tank OP, but I really would have a look at your stocking - keep the gourami but rehome all the others. Plenty of other smaller fish you can put in a 29G

 

[HydroPlane]

no worries folks.. this is the starting point.. they are moving to a 55g soon

 

[HydroPlane]

a school of zebra danios should be a solid fit 3".. not too small & still leaves room for the 2 balas & BGK as well as the loaches.  The count will prolly go to 3 loaches once i move my tropic setup to 55g.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

And after that? To house them all you'll need a 200 gallon minimum. Just for the knife fish, bala sharks, and clown loach. Not to mention the fact that the loach and sharks are schooling... meaning you want 5-6 of EACH species. So counting that in you'll need...

5x Bala sharks (adults are 18") http/www.balashark.info/bala_shark_care.php

5x clown loaches (adults are  12"+) http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/mix/clownloach.php

A heavily planted tank for the knife fish who gets 20"

Aaaaannnnnd a ~700 gallon tank to house them all. If that's not possible for you I highly recommend rehoming or returning them so they do not become stunted and die. Sorry. Your tank is very pretty though.

 

[HydroPlane]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/413070-black-ghost-knife-for-55g/
 
i have addressed these concerns & u can find posts in that link..
 
these fish will be fine when they are added to the 55g for the next cpl years. & if mine does hit a solid growth spurt i may be moving them to a 125g after those years.. but fish dont have to have a giant school to survive.. and they arent in a thick school now because of JUST THAT, its a 29GALLON! when i move them to the 55g i will prolly have a school of 4 loaches & maybe 3 bala sharks (which is enough they will still live, fish can still breathe & eat without a school or 5+) they wont be endangered in my tank to the point they need a giant school to disguise themselves in.. but thank you for the concerns
 
these fish will continue to grow as i utilize tanks & space..
 
its all about placement

 

[Lolly123]

You say that fish do not have to be in a giant school to survive, yes you're right, but fish keeping isn't about surviving, is it. I would hope most of us are in this hobby to try and replicate, as close as we can, the environments that are suited to the fish we choose and that includes taking particular note of the behaviour of each species and providing them with appropriate tank mates and or numbers of their own species to encourage the most natural environment possible.

The fact that you have seemingly ignored the long standing advisories that come with some of these fish mentioned above is ignorance and not through lack of knowledge, through choice. I can't fathom even to begin with, why anyone would put most of what you have in a 29gallon, we all know stocking your tanks based on what you might get in the future borders on bad practice.

I have followed a couple of your posts and you seem like you have been in the hobby a while and seem to hold a fair bit of knowledge, which is why I can't understand where you are coming from and the attitude of 'they can eat, sleep and not be endangered in my tank' to me fish keeping is most certainly not just about the mere existence of the fish in the tank at all.

I just had to get rid of some clown loaches which were bought by my mum when a LFS told her they'd be suitable for what she had at the time. They were housed in a 55g and it just wasn't big enough, it's not fair for the fish and that is my number one priority.

 

[HydroPlane]

im using this starting point to see exactly what i can grow with my BGK.. if i can comfortably house something with it 1 on 1 in a 29g.. when i relocate them and introduce the little schools everything from the plants to the fish will thrive

 

[HydroPlane]

and the reason i plan ahead with this is because i have the 55g & actually picking out the 125g right now.. just trying to land on the right price/size because i may go up to 150g. so its not like this isnt possible

 

[VickyChaiTea]

This is actually a behavior I see a lot in fishkeeping; the animal is alive so there can be husbandry issues. Which is, of course, untrue. Many fish are not as complex as mammals socially, but that does not mean that social behavior is completely absent and can be thrown out the window. It's not just about keeping them physically alive.
 
It's been my experience, and I am sure the experience of others, that keeping a schooling fish in a group that is too small it begins to degrade the condition of the fish. This degradation (stress) greatly increases their risk of illness and death. I have never been able to keep any schooling fish alive for it's whole life span in a group less than 6, plain and simple. Not with perfect water conditions (pH in the preferred range, 0 ammonia/nitrites/nitrates) appropriately decorated/filtered/aerated and with no bully tanks mates.
 
Besides, why in the world would you deprive a social animal of social interactions? So you can fit more fish into a tank? Think about that for a second. I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your stocking and it will, in time, end in failure. Not in a few weeks, not in a few months. But it will end badly.
 
And I'm not sure if you read what I wrote but a 125 is not large enough for the fish you have as adults. A 7' tank is a necessity. So you're gonna be short about two feet even if you don't fix your stocking levels. You can do all SORTS of other fish in a 125, though ( a nice pair of firemouths comes to mind) and I do encourage you to look at alternative stocking ideas.

 
Edit: 6 fish hardly qualifies as a "giant school".

 

[HydroPlane]

my fish are active in this 29g its awesome watching my balas dance for awhile & the clown loach will come out & swim with any of them.. & the angel gracefully swims around the top & occasionally jumps in the soft current. the bgk even comes out clear in the day & remains untouched/unphased by the others, its beautiful to watch. they all carry full bright colors too. i know ill be able to make them comfortable & right at home in the 55g (specially once i lightly school up the angel, loach & balas)
 
& im kinda starting to laugh now.. cuz ive seen so many different posts & some of you folks on here say.. for a bgk you gotta have a large 4 foot tank.. a 5 footer.. 6 foot..7..i mean seriously its almost getting to a point that you all must enjoy some sort of arguing..?? soo..2 more cents, 55g is 48"(4feet)x13"x21" which will work for more than the next year.. and the 125g bein 72"(6feet)x18.5"x24"(2feet)
 
sorry, i dont want to sound like a butt head (for lact of a better term) . i just stand by what ive been practicing especially when its showing very good & healthy results. love & livegreen

 

[Lolly123]

Unfortunately you do come across as if you know better than everyone else, you have an arrogance to your posts.

What do you expect when you come to a great forum like this one and post your pictures of fish, none of which should be housed in a 29G or with such minimal numbers as yours currently are, and then expect people not to mention the complete lack of suitability. As far as I'm concerned, it's not worth the attention, as you seem to enjoy it.

Of course there are going to be differences in people's opinions of tank size, notice how not one of them have differed in thinking that your tank is too small. I also saw that a member called Wills has posted on your 55G BGK post strongly advising against it, that person has been a very long standing member of the forum, who has always appeared to give knowledgable and spot on advice. Yet you still choose to ignore.

If you're laughing, why don't you laugh your way out the forum and find somewhere else that will put up with your sarcastic posts. You obviously have the whole affair planned out to perfection so why do you even consult a place like this?

 

[Wills]

100% you come across as a butthead

none of us like arguing or telling people they cant have certain fish but we have to for a few reasons really -

1. so that the original poster has a chance to learn why and stock their tanks accordingly but also reason - the advice most people give is based on experiences and mistakes they have learned. To avoid you doing the same - you have some of the most common fish in the hobby and the most common fish that are put in smaller tanks than they should be. This is perhaps the most irritating part of dealing with you - your problem whether you see it or not has been played out hundreds of times on this forum alone!

2 - this forum is read by a lot of people and it only takes a few things to slide and all of a sudden there are dozens of posts where seemingly healthy big fish are seemingly happy in small tanks (for them at least) And this is the problem you have only seen a few weeks of a young fish not the a fish in its prime at around 2 year or more when its done most of the growing and you then start to learn how much they eat how they need the water how much space they need.

A lot of fish live to surprising ages - Synodontis catfish can make 25 years! With some older! Cories can live to their teens, some tetras can live to about 7 or 8 and some cichlids should make 10 - 15.

3. Teach people alternative - there are always alternatives - always, always, always... in this case, how about ghost catfish instead of your BGK - your Pleco - lets not get started there are hundreds of alternatives - silver sharks, a little harder but how about Scizzor Tail Rasbora? Or if you just want the shark look how about a red tail shark? Clown Loaches, tons and tons of Botia Species that are more suitable.

All your doing here is, if I am honest in your arrogance to others, is making all the mistakes dozens of other have made before you.

So two options for you and both is fine by me - option 1 - listen, take advice, realise what is going to happen. Or just post pictures for people to say how cool your tank is and tell people not to comment - maybe put something in your signature? The second option will end up with dead fish but you seem be happy that you know what your doing so best to just leave you to it

One last thing though (I cant help it) - your Balas they ARE going to grow huge, they ARE migratory swarming fish in the wild, they DO NEED a huge tank - and I really mean a huge tank. BUT they are a commonly traded fish unfortunately so as big as possible is often their best option. The saving grace with your other fish is that they are slow growing to max size - The pleco and the sharks are going to cause you problems first.

And absolute last comment - your fish do look healthy right now and the fish that are suitable to this kind of tank are in great shape

And like I say its upto you if you take the advice but just do me two favors - 1 avoid advising others with your risky ideas and 2 warn people you dont want help when you post a topic.

Wills