The Final Question... Stocking Advice.

[cooledwhip]

Hey everyone I have been making lots of posts based on my 46 gallon SUPER tall aquarium I got. I set it up and it has been filled for a while now. I have cycled it a bit with a small bit of ammonia as I am new to the fish out method. It was really the smallest amount, I don't think it did too much. Anyway. I still added three guppies and I have been using Seachem stability to help cycle it more.
 
I am ready to add SOME fish and start stocking. I have an idea of what to stock it with but I wanted to know if there are any more options I could do.
 
My dad (who this tank is for) wants the most colorful fish I can get. We were watching something on TV and he pointed out the saltwater fish and said "Wow can you put those in my tank". I had to explain to him the difference between salt and fresh water... But its ok.
 
There are so many options I can do, but here is what I was thinking.
 
one or two freshwater angelfish
 
small school of various tetra species:
 
8 neon tetras
8 Rummy nose tetras
8 Diamond Tetras
4 Corycats
8 Congo Tetras
 
I know its a lot of tetras but I don't know what else to stock it with. I really want to put an angelfish or two in this tank, that is a must because the tank has such high dimensions, 20 in long 18 in wide 30 in tall,
 
An angel or two would look amazing.
 
Do different species of tetras school together?
For example can I have 10 neons and 2 rummynose? Just wondering.
 
I know apistogramas would also be nice too, idk if they would fight with the angel though.
 
Please leave me thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Munroco]

Being such a high tank I'd be tempted to put some hatchet fish in to inhabit the top, otherwise you may find a lot of your tank empty of fish, unless you have tall plants.

 

[cooledwhip]

Being such a high tank I'd be tempted to put some hatchet fish in to inhabit the top, otherwise you may find a lot of your tank empty of fish, unless you have tall plants.

Theres driftwood that reaches the top but I agree I will need some fish to be near the top. About the other fish though. My dad for SURE wants an angelfish. There will definetly be at least 1 in there. I also want the neon tetras and rummynose tetras, the corydoras. What other colorful fish can I put in there? Could I do two apistogrammas? 

 

[Byron]

Without knowing the water parameters of the source water...I will just mention a couple of issues on the intended fish species.
 
Angelfish is a shoaling species.  It must either be acquired in a group of five (some have had luck with four, but five is safer) minimum.  Less and there is a very real risk of bullying to death by a male.  A lone fish can work, though I personally do not recommend maintaining fish contrary to their natural expectations for their own good.  Two angelfish will only work if they are a bonded mated pair.
 
Given the tank volume and dimensions, I am hesitant to suggest a group of five angelfish because they will grow (if they survive) and at 6 inches body length with a vertical fin span of 8-9 inches this is not a small fish.  The other part of this is that a pair may well form and once that occurs, the others could be in for a fairly quick demise unless they are moved out to different quarters, or the group is in a much larger tank.
 
Aside from the angelfish issues, they will not work with just any tankmates.  Linear fish (neons, rummynose, and similar) are not good ideas; a mature angelfish can easily eat a linear tetra.  The disk-shaped tetras make better companions.  Just make sure the species is not at all likely to fin nip (many tetras will).
 
The other thing is that tetras are shoaling fish, so again a group of the species is necessary, and while six is usually the suggested minimum they will be better with more.  Rummynose is a highly shoaling species among tetras, probably more than any other, and it always is better with a larger group; I would not have frewer than 10-15.  However, another problem with rummys is that they like to swim lengths, so I would not recommend them here for that reason as well as the angelfish.
 
Corydoras are fine, but they must have more in the group; these are social fish.  Five is absolute minimum, but the fish will always be less stressed and in better health with more, and when space permits, this is advisable.  I would have 7-9 here (the substrate space is very limited).
 
Apistogramma would be good in this tank though I would not recommend them with angelfish in so small a space...cichlids are cichlids after all.  To be honest, for this type of tank, vertical, sedate fish like a pair or a harem (depending upon species) of Apistogramma, a couple species of pencilfish in good-sized shoals, corys, and some quieter tetras would be good (neons, cardinals, etc), though again the water parameters might dictate differently as some of these will be wild caught.
 
Byron.

 

[cooledwhip]

Without knowing the water parameters of the source water...I will just mention a couple of issues on the intended fish species.
 
Angelfish is a shoaling species.  It must either be acquired in a group of five (some have had luck with four, but five is safer) minimum.  Less and there is a very real risk of bullying to death by a male.  A lone fish can work, though I personally do not recommend maintaining fish contrary to their natural expectations for their own good.  Two angelfish will only work if they are a bonded mated pair.
 
Given the tank volume and dimensions, I am hesitant to suggest a group of five angelfish because they will grow (if they survive) and at 6 inches body length with a vertical fin span of 8-9 inches this is not a small fish.  The other part of this is that a pair may well form and once that occurs, the others could be in for a fairly quick demise unless they are moved out to different quarters, or the group is in a much larger tank.
 
Aside from the angelfish issues, they will not work with just any tankmates.  Linear fish (neons, rummynose, and similar) are not good ideas; a mature angelfish can easily eat a linear tetra.  The disk-shaped tetras make better companions.  Just make sure the species is not at all likely to fin nip (many tetras will).
 
The other thing is that tetras are shoaling fish, so again a group of the species is necessary, and while six is usually the suggested minimum they will be better with more.  Rummynose is a highly shoaling species among tetras, probably more than any other, and it always is better with a larger group; I would not have frewer than 10-15.  However, another problem with rummys is that they like to swim lengths, so I would not recommend them here for that reason as well as the angelfish.
 
Corydoras are fine, but they must have more in the group; these are social fish.  Five is absolute minimum, but the fish will always be less stressed and in better health with more, and when space permits, this is advisable.  I would have 7-9 here (the substrate space is very limited).
 
Apistogramma would be good in this tank though I would not recommend them with angelfish in so small a space...cichlids are cichlids after all.  To be honest, for this type of tank, vertical, sedate fish like a pair or a harem (depending upon species) of Apistogramma, a couple species of pencilfish in good-sized shoals, corys, and some quieter tetras would be good (neons, cardinals, etc), though again the water parameters might dictate differently as some of these will be wild caught.
 
Byron.

Thank you for y our advice but I have trouble believing the accuracy of some of what you are saying.. I live by chicago. Lots of aquariums, and the mother of all aquariums, Shedd. I was there recently and they have always had exhibits on the orinoco river and rivers where lots of aquarium fish are found, and in many of the tanks you would find angelfish with tetras. I even saw a tank with ALTUM angels with neons and rummynose. Of course this tank is much larger but the eating issue obviously isnt a problem when there are about a couple thousand neon tetras in the tank.
 
And what do you mean a single angelfish cant be held in a tank? Who will bully it to death? Or will ti bully others to death?
 
Tank parameters are normal. pH is around 7.4-7.8, ammonia and nitrates/ites 0.
 
I see tanks with "linear" tetras and angels all over the web online..

 

[cooledwhip]

Without knowing the water parameters of the source water...I will just mention a couple of issues on the intended fish species.
 
Angelfish is a shoaling species.  It must either be acquired in a group of five (some have had luck with four, but five is safer) minimum.  Less and there is a very real risk of bullying to death by a male.  A lone fish can work, though I personally do not recommend maintaining fish contrary to their natural expectations for their own good.  Two angelfish will only work if they are a bonded mated pair.
 
Given the tank volume and dimensions, I am hesitant to suggest a group of five angelfish because they will grow (if they survive) and at 6 inches body length with a vertical fin span of 8-9 inches this is not a small fish.  The other part of this is that a pair may well form and once that occurs, the others could be in for a fairly quick demise unless they are moved out to different quarters, or the group is in a much larger tank.
 
Aside from the angelfish issues, they will not work with just any tankmates.  Linear fish (neons, rummynose, and similar) are not good ideas; a mature angelfish can easily eat a linear tetra.  The disk-shaped tetras make better companions.  Just make sure the species is not at all likely to fin nip (many tetras will).
 
The other thing is that tetras are shoaling fish, so again a group of the species is necessary, and while six is usually the suggested minimum they will be better with more.  Rummynose is a highly shoaling species among tetras, probably more than any other, and it always is better with a larger group; I would not have frewer than 10-15.  However, another problem with rummys is that they like to swim lengths, so I would not recommend them here for that reason as well as the angelfish.
 
Corydoras are fine, but they must have more in the group; these are social fish.  Five is absolute minimum, but the fish will always be less stressed and in better health with more, and when space permits, this is advisable.  I would have 7-9 here (the substrate space is very limited).
 
Apistogramma would be good in this tank though I would not recommend them with angelfish in so small a space...cichlids are cichlids after all.  To be honest, for this type of tank, vertical, sedate fish like a pair or a harem (depending upon species) of Apistogramma, a couple species of pencilfish in good-sized shoals, corys, and some quieter tetras would be good (neons, cardinals, etc), though again the water parameters might dictate differently as some of these will be wild caught.
 
Byron.

Would Dwarf rasboras be a good species? Some species of rasbora?
 
Lambchop rasbora?
 
What about cardinal tetras, diamond tetras, blue emperor tetras. Serpae tetras? Help me out here man!! lol.

 

[Byron]

Thank you for y our advice but I have trouble believing the accuracy of some of what you are saying.. I live by chicago. Lots of aquariums, and the mother of all aquariums, Shedd. I was there recently and they have always had exhibits on the orinoco river and rivers where lots of aquarium fish are found, and in many of the tanks you would find angelfish with tetras. I even saw a tank with ALTUM angels with neons and rummynose. Of course this tank is much larger but the eating issue obviously isnt a problem when there are about a couple thousand neon tetras in the tank.

I see tanks with "linear" tetras and angels all over the web online.
 

 
Many fail to realize the difference in this and that aquarium when it comes to fish species together.  I would suspect that the tank housing the angelfish and tetras at the Shedd is considerably larger than your home aquarium.  As soon as you put any species into a small space (and to the fish, almost all home aquaria will be small) you are creating an artificial environment.  Fish interact, with their species, and species with species.  How they do this in their natural habitat is their natural response; how they do this in an artificial environment may be very different.
 
Studies in the last few years have looked into fish aggression, and found that when shoaling fish were maintained in small groups (five was the number used in one study) their aggression increased.  In aggressive species it heightened, while in normally peaceful species they became aggressive.  The conclusion was that the fish were being forced into unnatural situations and out of frustration reacted in the only way they could, through aggression.  It has also been found that tank space affects this.  The larger the number of fish in the group, and the larger the tank space, the less aggressive, generally speaking.
 
In their habitat, angelfish would not normally consider other fish as food.  For one thing, the other fish would not be so close to them, and for another the angelfish and the smaller fish are in larger groups and thus less stressed.
 
What one may see online is no guarantee that it works, long-term.
 
Last on this issue, one must remember that we can only assume the norm for a fish.  Individual fish may behave outside the norm, for various reasons.  The sensible aquarist understands the norm for a species and assumes this will occur if a proper environment is provided.  Going against this logic and hoping it works is not responsible and is unfair to the fish.  I do not put a fish at risk just to please myself.
 

And what do you mean a single angelfish cant be held in a tank? Who will bully it to death? Or will ti bully others to death?
 

 
I didn't say it can't, I said I am not one who recommends keeping fish in situations which are not natural to the species.  Fish are living creatures that have evolved to function best in their natural environment, and if you want healthy fish you must provide what they "expect" as much as you can.  And understand that not doing this is going to cause stress and this means weakened fish and health problems that would otherwise not occur, and a shorter lifespan results.
 

Tank parameters are normal. pH is around 7.4-7.8, ammonia and nitrates/ites 0.
 

 
Water parameters includes GH and KH (and temperature) as well as pH, and the GH and temperature are the more critical for fish when it comes to long-term maintenance.  Some species willonly survive in good health in soft water, some in moderately hard or harder, and some in the middle.
 

Would Dwarf rasboras be a good species? Some species of rasbora?
Lambchop rasbora?
What about cardinal tetras, diamond tetras, blue emperor tetras. Serpae tetras?
 

 
Dwarf rasbora, assuming this means the species in Boraras, would almost certainly be eaten by angelfish.  The medium-sized species like the Harlequin can work well.  The lambchop is pushing it, I personally wouldn't.  Cardinal tetras (like neons) are not good.  Diamonds would work.  Emperor Tetra sometimes work, but these can get nippy and the sedate angelfish may become a target.  Serpae Tetras are out period, as they have a natural tendency to fin-nip and one never puts sedate fish in with nippy fish.
 
Tetras that go very well as the Rosy, Roberti, Red and Black Phantom, etc.  Provided the group is large, and the tank spacious enough.  Keep in mind the combination of species with angelfish always assumes spacious tanks, so even these would not work always.

 

[cooledwhip]

I understand the deal with the angelfish, and it makes me sad. But I will try and make a longer tank setup sometime for angelfish.
 
Plus I want to make this a little maintenance tank and I wont be there everyday to look at the tank and dianose problems with the fish fighting.
 
It is sad that I cant put the angelfish in there, I really wanted it to be a south american orinoco river themed tank. 
 
If I could do angelfish, it would probably be a single angelfish and a very small school of some tetras.
 
 
What I am thinking now is a lot of dwarf neon rainbowfish, and all the small tetras I want.. Would that work?

 

[Byron]

You haven't posted the GH yet, so it is still not easy to heartily recommend this or that.  From the aspect of tank size only, the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish could work, though it does like some horizontal swimming space which a tall tank does not provide.  But the species also occurs in swamps and ponds, so it might manage.  I would bow to the opinion of one of our rainbowfish experts, which I am not.  It is a shoaling fish, so a group, with two females for each male best, and they attain 2-3 inches.  Peaceful tetras would do well as tankmates.
 
Byron.

 

[cooledwhip]

You haven't posted the GH yet, so it is still not easy to heartily recommend this or that.  From the aspect of tank size only, the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish could work, though it does like some horizontal swimming space which a tall tank does not provide.  But the species also occurs in swamps and ponds, so it might manage.  I would bow to the opinion of one of our rainbowfish experts, which I am not.  It is a shoaling fish, so a group, with two females for each male best, and they attain 2-3 inches.  Peaceful tetras would do well as tankmates.
 
Byron.

I already went out and purchased the dwarf neon rainbows. I was out anyway and stopped into my LFS and saw some at a nice price. I believe I got 8 of them for $40. There were what looked like 6 juvies and 2 adults. I put 4 in the 45 gallon and the other 4 in my 20 gallon long. I really want to try and breed these guys one day since they are my all around favorite fish. If the tank is too small for horizontal swimming space I can relocate th  em into a different tank of mine no biggie.
 
I walked into the LFS and saw the angelfish and they were massive. I am pretty sure I could have done a single one and thats it but I'd rather have lots of fish everywhere in the tank.

 

[Far_King]

I had some dwarf neon rainbows in a cube for a while, definitely better and more natural displays from them in a longer tank, but see how they fare.