Sweet Pairs

[_cRaCkEr_]

Oh I know that, its just the 'big hump=big money' attitude that I find irritating. Seems to me the only reason FH's are being bred is to get the biggest hump possible so they sell for the biggest money possible...

- Not really if the head is not proportion in the body of an FH you can't get big $$$. Another reason for an FH to become expensive is the color and the pearls in their body.


i love my flower horn.

if she wanted to generate a lil extra cash for me on the side whats the big deal with that? the bigger the hump the more money... how is that bad? its just like anything else in life. the bigger the engine in a car the more money. the bigger tv the more money it costs. ect.

- Exactly.

When selective breeding is taken to such an extreme that the health and wellbeing of the animal suffers, something is wrong.

- The head will not grow as to cover their eyes, this will not be permitted by breeders like me. This is no good for the show.


but I think a fish incapeable of breeding due to people's selfishness is deffinately compromised unfairly. All these have also been created with a profit in mind but with far worse consequences - and there are still many more examples

- Correct, Goodthing Flower Horns are definitely capable of breeding and they can produce like 600 Fry pero spawning.

 

[VENOM]

ohh nice FHs!

 

[Unphased]

i think some fish that are "man made" arent able to breed isgood. if these fish get into our local waters and rivers it could be a disaster. its already happening in florida and certin states... maybe its just me...

 

[sylvia]

Yes, I see what you are talking about - and I agree that, in a sense, it's best for hybrids to not be capeable of reproducing. However, this is not the point I was making. I was talking about fish that can normaly breed but have been manipulated by man in such a way that they no longer can (through selective breeding obviously). I was trying, along with my other examples, to show how breeding for profit has resulted in all sorts of issues with fish that would otherwise be healthy and was trying to contrast this with flowerhorns, which, dispite the breeding for larger nuchal humps, are not negatively effected by this trait and, therefore, we should be complaining about more immediate issues - such as the fact that they are hybrids that can reproduce (which is what you said). What I mean, basically, is that breeding for larger nuchal humps may be selfish but it is not detrimental to the fish - while, in contrast, producing any breedable hybrid is dangerous for both wild populations and pure species within the hobby. I just feel the people who were worrying voer the nuchal humps were mis-placing their concern.

And, to Synirr, I do see why you are suggesting flowerhorns may end up on the same level as extreme-type fancy goldfish. However, the breeding of flowerhorns is on the downfall, their popularity has dropped significantly in recent years and, since around 2003, their numbers are seriously on the decline. Besides, if this danger exists with flowerhorns, it also exists with any other fish that has a unique characteristic and the real danger with flowerhorns is much more so the fact that they are hybrids than the idea that the might one day have problems due to increasingly large nuchal humps. I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm just saying I don't entirely agree.

 

[plecoguy]

thats the pic of the guy i picked up for 9 bucks. let me know what you think. he is in a 125 right now. and im slowly changing around the tank mates in there.

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

PlecoGuy - I think I know this post from FHUSA ?

Yeah like what they said this is a steal for 9 bucks ! really cheap for a nice ZZ FH with kok formation. Don't feed him with color enhancers yet and if you can put him in a separate larger tank but if not that Parrot fish will be his tank mate and it should be fine.

Nice Catch.

 

[plecoguy]

larger tank than a 125 gallon? like i said im limiting what i have down to just a few things, i want to keep the flower horn, and i want to keep the parrots, everything else is gonna go as soon as i find a good place for them

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

larger tank than a 125 gallon? like i said im limiting what i have down to just a few things, i want to keep the flower horn, and i want to keep the parrots, everything else is gonna go as soon as i find a good place for them

That's not a problem Bro. you can keep them in 1 tank forever.

 

[Synirr]

I was talking about fish that can normaly breed but have been manipulated by man in such a way that they no longer can (through selective breeding obviously).

...Example?
Normally that's the one thing amoral breeders DO care about, that the fish can reproduce for them!

Besides, if this danger exists with flowerhorns, it also exists with any other fish that has a unique characteristic and the real danger with flowerhorns is much more so the fact that they are hybrids than the idea that the might one day have problems due to increasingly large nuchal humps.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. Honestly I'm not concerned about flowerhorns at all, I couldn't care less that they are being bred and actually think some are very attractive. I might even try breeding them myself one day in the distant future. I'm normally opposed to hybrids, but flowerhorns are well established, not deformed like bloodparrots, and are actually worth something (unlike those "oopsie" hybrids). The only real danger I see is if the were to get loose and form populations in the wild.

As for the whole nuchal hump thing... yeah, right now show standards may keep it at a decent size, but it used to be that the noses of Persian cats were supposed to be below their eyes, and now some judges actually prefer the nose so high that it's positioned right between the eyes. Show standards change... The fins of bettas are supposed to stay a reasonable size too, but in the process of trying to attain that perfect balance, many fish are born with fins that are way too large and weight them down. Not to mention that fins get longer as a fish ages, so a fish that is in its show prime may have perfect fins, but as its finnage continues to develop it can become too much and the fish has a lot of trouble getting around.

I mean, it may not happen with flowerhorns, but one of the demons of linebreeding is that there will always be irresponsible breeders out there and the animal almost invariably suffers in the end.

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

I can't post them all but here's some pics of our flower horns

http/pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/v-brian/my_photos

 

[sylvia]

Synirr, I already gave an example of fish that can't reproduce due to their breeding - (lyretail) swordtails. They are also some of the most expensive varieties. Both because of the very difficulty involved in their breeding and because they are some of the varieties most sought after and considered most attractive and desireable by many breeders. These swordtails are obvious examples as their inability to breed is directly a result of breeding for 'desirable' physical characteristics. BTW, just because the males won't breed, doesn't mean they can't still be produced in large numbers. As the lyretail trait is dominant, you can get lyretail males from just breeding females with other types of male or, the method employed often in large-scale fish production, to breed lyretail females with their own offspring which are too young to have developed the extra long gonopodium yet. Lyretails are one of the varieties most in demand so, despite the extra work involved, they are worth it to make a profit. Take a look at this: http/www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTS...61652747584.pdf If you scroll down to where it talks about 'Factors Affecting the Price of Swordtails' you'll find it basicaly says exactly what I just did or, if you can't be bothered to read through all that stuff, at least take a look at the first pic (as it's a lyretail ).

_cracker_ - I'm realy sorry about taking this thread so off topic... Your fish are beautiful - especialy the kamalaus - I love their markings and the (I think they are smaller) young ones are amazing.

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

Synirr, I already gave an example of fish that can't reproduce due to their breeding - (lyretail) swordtails. They are also some of the most expensive varieties. Both because of the very difficulty involved in their breeding and because they are some of the varieties most sought after and considered most attractive and desireable by many breeders. These swordtails are obvious examples as their inability to breed is directly a result of breeding for 'desirable' physical characteristics. BTW, just because the males won't breed, doesn't mean they can't still be produced in large numbers. As the lyretail trait is dominant, you can get lyretail males from just breeding females with other types of male or, the method employed often in large-scale fish production, to breed lyretail females with their own offspring which are too young to have developed the extra long gonopodium yet. Lyretails are one of the varieties most in demand so, despite the extra work involved, they are worth it to make a profit. Take a look at this: http/www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTS...61652747584.pdf If you scroll down to where it talks about 'Factors Affecting the Price of Swordtails' you'll find it basicaly says exactly what I just did or, if you can't be bothered to read through all that stuff, at least take a look at the first pic (as it's a lyretail ).

_cracker_ - I'm realy sorry about taking this thread so off topic... Your fish are beautiful - especialy the kamalaus - I love their markings and the (I think they are smaller) young ones are amazing.

No worries it's all good, It's a healthy conversation.

keep it coming.

I'm cool

 

[Synirr]

Whoops, guess I missed the part about lyretail swordies in your previous post, my bad )

 

[_cRaCkEr_]

Whoops, guess I missed the part about lyretail swordies in your previous post, my bad )

I hope u can post some pics of your fishes. I want to see them too. What fish is that on your Avatar ?

 

[sylvia]

That's ok Synirr, I didn't actualy mention they were lyretails specificaly to begin with anyway. I do believe that fish is an oscar _cracker_ but we'll have to wait for Synirr cause I'm not sure .