Super White L236

[TwoTankAmin]

Born in my tank and now 2.5 - 3 inch. I have not had time to edit the pics but cropped this for a quick post.

edited to fix 2/5 to be 2.5

 

[Wills]

Very nice!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@Wills
TY- I think I have about 75 of them now at various sizes. They weere the last breeding group I assembled in late 2019. It took about 1.5 years of growing before they began to spawn.

L236 is in odd fish. I personally do not think it will ever be a described species as it is a natural hybrid. This is why is lends itself to line breeding for more white. L236 are highly variable in appearance and tend to morph with time. So selecting more mature individuals which show a bit more white allows one to work at line breeding to achieve the "super" whites.

I never had the time, space nor inclination to try creating a line of super whites. But I do like how they look, especially in their prime. Except for zebras. all of the B&W Hypans from the Xingu I have worked with all tend to get less white with age eventually.

 

[joeyr188]

@Wills
TY- I think I have about 75 of them now at various sizes. They weere the last breeding group I assembled in late 2019. It took about 1.5 years of growing before they began to spawn.

L236 is in odd fish. I personally do not think it will ever be a described species as it is a natural hybrid. This is why is lends itself to line breeding for more white. L236 are highly variable in appearance and tend to morph with time. So selecting more mature individuals which show a bit more white allows one to work at line breeding to achieve the "super" whites.

I never had the time, space nor inclination to try creating a line of super whites. But I do like how they look, especially in their prime. Except for zebras. all of the B&W Hypans from the Xingu I have worked with all tend to get less white with age eventually.

Do you sell them or just keep and breed them?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I sell them, but the prices are stupid high, more than zebra plecos. I have a weakenss for the B&W wormline plecos found in the Big Bend Of the Rio Xingu in Brazil. I have zebras, regular and sw 236, 2 groups of L173 including one wild caught. I have been very lucky over the years and the fish have ultimately paid both for my hobby costs and for the fish themselves.

I work with colonies rather than pairs or reverse trios. And, I am extremely fortunate to have amazing well water. I have yet to own a species of pleco which did not spawn in it. So over the years I have had a lot of fun and enjoyment from keeping these fish. I have also gotten a tom of babies.

A lot of people think those of us addicted to these guys keep fish which cost so much and that one rarely sees. I cannot explain it except that when I opened the bag with the very first two zebras I got, I was in love. How could such a simply colored fish look so stunning. My picture taking skill do not do justice to how my fish look in person.

 

[kiko]

looks like the black is a bit faded though...got better pics?
are they breeding true at least? or you're getting mixed?
I got 46's but these guys are still a year from breeding...
I thought about superwhites but 46's are already expensive as they are let alone getting into another kind of expensive fish...
but aquaristsacrosscanada lists s-whites at 350$ while 46's are going for 800$ on kijiji or 150$/fry

 

[TwoTankAmin]

$800 for a zebra. That is nuts. You can find them here for a lot less and I have imported 1.5 inch zebras for a bit over $40 after we lost a few to ich after they landed.

L236 are not all that pricey when small. and they are one of the earliest breeding of the Xingu Hypancistrus. They are ideally suited for line breeding to fix the tratibvecause generations can be produced faster than with zebras or the other species I have kept. The most prized 236 regular or super white are the ones bred by Robert Budrovcan in Germany. Mine came from his lines.

3 of the 6 sw 236 in the orig post

 

[joeyr188]

$800 for a zebra. That is nuts. You can find them here for a lot less and I have imported 1.5 inch zebras for a bit over $40 after we lost a few to ich after they landed.

L236 are not all that pricey when small. and they are one of the earliest breeding of the Xingu Hypancistrus. They are ideally suited for line breeding to fix the tratibvecause generations can be produced faster than with zebras or the other species I have kept. The most prized 236 regular or super white are the ones bred by Robert Budrovcan in Germany. Mine came from his lines.

3 of the 6 sw 236 in the orig post
View attachment 311502

Yes there like 250$ here I wish they were 40$ here I really like zebras plecos

 

[kiko]

$800 for a zebra. That is nuts. You can find them here for a lot less and I have imported 1.5 inch zebras for a bit over $40 after we lost a few to ich after they landed.

L236 are not all that pricey when small. and they are one of the earliest breeding of the Xingu Hypancistrus. They are ideally suited for line breeding to fix the tratibvecause generations can be produced faster than with zebras or the other species I have kept. The most prized 236 regular or super white are the ones bred by Robert Budrovcan in Germany. Mine came from his lines.

3 of the 6 sw 236 in the orig post
View attachment 311502

how long ago was that? because prices for zebras are through the roof...in and around toronto stores sell them as fry for 200-250...
kijiji you find them at 150
and adults the last pairs I've seen was 2 pairs for 7000$ which was just insane to me
and the very last time which was around 2 months ago 5 pairs for 8k which is roughly 800$/each
at these prices I decided to grow my own I bought 2 first which died a few days later
I guess because they were small maybe stress or being pushed around?!?
so I got another 4...this time about 3-4 months old already same breeder..he actually gave me a nice deal on the 4 because the first 2 died, 4 for 450
very nice guy out of guelph...his daughter/wife fell in love with my dog which I brought along for the ride
but yeah..not sure I want to breed them for profit as I actually love these fish in my tank not a barebones with just caves and plates...
but definitely hope to make my money back at least...
46 and 144 to me are the best looking plecos there is xD

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The problem with buying them in stores is the mark-up. Stores mark up prices on fish between 100 and 300%.

Next, the zebras are illegal to remove from Brazil. A few years ago they were pace on the Cites Appendix listing which mean for them to move between any two countries to which at least the recipient country was a signatory of the treaty, that he fish must be accompanied with a "Certificate of Origin." A local authority empowered to do so must certify the fish are tank raised. This has pretty much pit a stop the the wild trade in terms of fish coming out of the wild.

I do not sell my offspring to stores. I sell directly to fish keepers. I do not think I have ever sold one for more than $200 and that was because they were 2 inches or more. I also only sell my fish in groups. People who buy them are normally interested in breeding them. Except for the 236, many of them are endangered in the wild and can be difficult to find. Brazil uses an approved list to indicate which fish can be removed from their habitat.

When we did the import in March 2020 the delay in getting them was caused by two things. The first was getting the certificate of origin sand the second was the start of Covid slowing flights all over the globe. We had to have then shipped from Indonesia to Chicago.

 

[joeyr188]

The problem with buying them in stores is the mark-up. Stores mark up prices on fish between 100 and 300%.

Next, the zebras are illegal to remove from Brazil. A few years ago they were pace on the Cites Appendix listing which mean for them to move between any two countries to which at least the recipient country was a signatory of the treaty, that he fish must be accompanied with a "Certificate of Origin." A local authority empowered to do so must certify the fish are tank raised. This has pretty much pit a stop the the wild trade in terms of fish coming out of the wild.

I do not sell my offspring to stores. I sell directly to fish keepers. I do not think I have ever sold one for more than $200 and that was because they were 2 inches or more. I also only sell my fish in groups. People who buy them are normally interested in breeding them. Except for the 236, many of them are endangered in the wild and can be difficult to find. Brazil uses an approved list to indicate which fish can be removed from their habitat.

When we did the import in March 2020 the delay in getting them was caused by two things. The first was getting the certificate of origin sand the second was the start of Covid slowing flights all over the globe. We had to have then shipped from Indonesia to Chicago.

how much do you sell groups for and would you sell a pair or trio

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am not big on sexing. Because to do it, such that I am 100% sure, requires venting the fish. For me this cannot be done easily. My old eyes are not good enough to do it at their size and where they do not hold still for long. I have to set up a special photo tank and induce the fish to put down their tubes, if they are not already out. Then I shoot pictures from the side, above and, especially, below. Females have a more blob shaped tube while males have a more pointy shaped tubes. I am not willing to do this for sale or trade purposes.

I have only one public gallery where I did this for my L173b (they all went out in early 2020). You can see the results of the above process there. The two top pics were posted years later and are off offspring from the individual fish pictured below them.
https://twotankamin.smugmug.com/Fish/L-173b/n-chr5b/

I am pretty good at keeping fish and having a lot of them spawn in my tanks. Unfortunately, I am a poor photographer. it takes a lot of shots and even more luck to get a good picture. My brother, an ex professional photographer from the film days, helped a lot with the pics you will see.

 

[kiko]

the issue is that even if you sold them for cheap...in Canada it would require a lot of red tape....
so for canadians getting fish from outside has to be in volumes or it simply isnt worth it...
from what I've seen before you'd need an agency/company which costs around 90$ last time I checked...
you also need to file taxes on it at least once to be able to have income tax proof for it which you can just put a whatever charge/payment just so you can file taxes
then you need a fish import license which runs at over 500$
then you need to apply for a cites permit for endangered fish which is free but you still have to get a yes from them
it's good for shops or whatever buying in bulk...not for the regular guy just wanting to get some fish from a nearby country like the us or mexico
at least they "allow" it...in Australia from what I've heard it's a simple...NO
and I've talked with a guy on youtube once about zebras that he got...he said adults run at around 3000$/each as no imports are allowed

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Some Canadian fish keepers have been known to come down for a visit to the states and have returned home with some fish which they forgot to mention when crossing the border. Some people are just absent minded.

Some Americans have been known to hide fish in the car of people from Canada who are in the states for a visit. These crazy Americans think this a good joke. Of course they let the duped Canadian know how they were played once they get back home.

Some fish which are kept in poor conditions wanting to get out of where they are so badly that they will leap from the tank, fill a bag with water, get in it and then manage to sneak into the car of a Canadian fish keeper visiting the states because the fish know that Canadians treat their fish quite well. It has not yet been discovered how the fish make the bag get to and then get into the vehicle where they hide, only that they do this.

Syracuse NY is about 4 hours from both of us.

 

[kiko]

this is the only one I could get a picture of my 46's...the other ones are in hiding mode

and the new l144 spawn...I usually let them be in the tank so some of them die off
then pick the stronger ones that lasted 2 weeks and separate them

I still have around 60-80 left and I let nature take it's course and get rid of the weak ones