Stocking suggestions for 112l tank (80cm x 35cm x 40cm) (almost 30 US Gal.)

[Artur]

Hi, I'm new here, but I'm not new to the hobby of fishkeeping. Also, sorry in advance for my english.

I've got quite few tanks, but I always have problem with stocking them. I don't know how many of what fish I can stock.
I'll use latin names, becuase I don't know their names in English, and if I post them in my language probably not many people will know what I'm talking about.
It's a casual 112l tank - 80cm long, 35cm wide, 40cm tall.
I'm going to use a Eheim BioPower 240 in it, or Aquael TurboFilter 1000 (Polish brand Aquael, makes decent stuff such as filters heaters etc. most with 3 year warranty, pretty cheap).
My water from the well is 7.0-7.2pH and around 13°dH (German scale) but I can manage to drop it a little bit with the use of alder cones, wood etc.

I was thinking of keeping a pair or harem of Cryptoheros sp. Honduran Red Point or Amatitlania Kanna. I know they're similar in many ways to Amatitlania nigrofasciata, but I'm not sure "how similar" are they exactly.
I know I could keep a pair of Amatitlania nigrofasciata but what about the Red Point and Kanna?
I found some information on the internet that Cryptoheros sp. Honduran Red Point are less agressive, when they spawn they only "use" a terrority of around 20cm x 20cm, and that they don't really form a pernament pair as some cichlids do - they form a pair when spawning, and then they "divorce", so you should actually keep them in harems - 1 male and 2 or 3 females. That way he doesn't kill one female when they loose their roe etc. - he will chase multiple fish (females) so he cannot chase them to death. Similar to some bettas.

Is this true? Should I keep them in harem? One male, and 3 females?
Is it the same with Amatitlania Kanna?

I'd prefer Cryptoheros sp. Honduran Red Point, but they're not always available.
I wouldn't keep anything more - just them in harem (if this is what's recommended).

Bunch of wood, rocks. Fine sand on the bottom.

Thanks for your help

If there's any more info I should provide for you to help me - just let me know and I'll do just that.

 

[ClownLurch]

Welcome Artur.

Above my pay grade your questions but I’m sure someone will have the answers. Best of luck with your tank.

 

[Artur]

I know they're not that common (at least not at my place). I found one blog describing them, how to take care of them etc.

I've read about them on one forum/blog, of course it's in polish, but the folk who wrote it was using Sam Borsteins insights. Here's his take on Honduran Red Point (ENG):

Archocentrus sp. "honduran red point"

www.borstein.info

He himself kept them in 20 gallon tank. Unfortunately I don't know whether it was a pair or harem. As he states: "These fish have an excellent pair bond like convict cichlids, but they are not as aggressive towards each other nor other species when spawning.".

Again - I've read other article where other fishkeeper said they don't bond outside of spawning period, that's why you should keep them in harems.

 

[ClownLurch]

I’m actually about to buy the exact same sized tank on eBay to replace mine that leaked on Xmas eve.

 

[Artur]

I have this convenience that 10 miles from my place there is Diversa manufacturer. You can actually buy their fish tanks in the UK as far as I'm aware, but I prefer the other maker which is 20 miles out in the other direction. I bought 468 litres (130cm x 60cm x 60cm), 12mm thick glass for (I kid you not) 800pln (less than 150GBP / 175 EUR).
My 240L (120x40x50) was around 220PLN which is around 40GBP / 50 EUR.

Yes - all brand new, with 5 year warranty.

Nevertheless - I really would like to keep those cichlids in this 112L tank, but there's very little info on them out there on the web...

 

[Wills]

Sounds like an interesting project, I kept a pair a long time ago in a 125 litre 3 foot tank and I couldnt keep anything with them, they spawned 2-3 times in quick succession and some of their offspring grew in the same tank to a decent size. Eventually the male stressed the female to death and as a singleton he was an ok tank mate but I eventually moved him on.

If you want to keep a Cryptoheros/Amatitlania species in this size tank I would personally go for either Cutteri or Nanoluteus, I kept a group of 5 Nanoluteus for about a year and they are a great fish, great colours and personality but pretty placid compared to their relatives. A much bigger difference between them vs HRP and Convicts (where as HRPs and Convicts are not that different in aggression).

I've not kept Cutteri but from their reputation they are pretty calm and in their black and white dress they are an attractive fish too. Both these and the Nanoluteus are on the smaller side of the family too, my Nanoluteus males were a bit under 4 inches at 12-15 months of having them the females under 3.

Wills

 

[Artur]

Sounds like an interesting project, I kept a pair a long time ago in a 125 litre 3 foot tank and I couldnt keep anything with them, they spawned 2-3 times in quick succession and some of their offspring grew in the same tank to a decent size. Eventually the male stressed the female to death and as a singleton he was an ok tank mate but I eventually moved him on.

If you want to keep a Cryptoheros/Amatitlania species in this size tank I would personally go for either Cutteri or Nanoluteus, I kept a group of 5 Nanoluteus for about a year and they are a great fish, great colours and personality but pretty placid compared to their relatives. A much bigger difference between them vs HRP and Convicts (where as HRPs and Convicts are not that different in aggression).

I've not kept Cutteri but from their reputation they are pretty calm and in their black and white dress they are an attractive fish too. Both these and the Nanoluteus are on the smaller side of the family too, my Nanoluteus males were a bit under 4 inches at 12-15 months of having them the females under 3.

Wills

Thank you very much for your suggestion! I've never heard of Nanoluteus, maybe because I've never seen one in petstore or online. They're even prettier than HRPs! I could go and buy them pretty easily too. Found them on Polish version of craigslist/ebay and they are 100km away (around 60 miles) - for 6 USD so they are not expensive at all.

I'll try to reach out to the seller and ask what size and sex they are (if they are big enough to tell).

Talking about gender/sex - how do you tell if it's male or female? Similar to convicts?

You said you've kept succesfully group of 5 of them - do you think I could keep 1 male + 3 females in my tank? Are you supposed to keep them in harem or should I go for pair?

Once again thank you for your idea, I like it a lot actually.

 

[Wills]

So I had five in a six foot tank but it was massively under stocked I had a group of mollies with mine but I felt they were too timid to live with any other cichlids so was a bit stuck.

Great you can get hold of them though they are a stunning fish. Mine bred loads but always are the eggs and fry. They seemed to change partners in the group so not sure which to suggest it might be good to get a small group and determine the best dynamic from there.

I think it could be good to have some dither fish for them like some swordtails or platys as they are a really shy fish

Wills

 

[Artur]

I already have a 96l tank with platys (80cm x 30cm x 40cm) so maybe swordtails - though I never liked them really. Maybe Hyphessobrycon columbianus instead or some kind of tetra?

Ok, I do that - I'll get a group of 4-5. If they'll be big enough to tell "who's who" (gender wise) I'll get 1 male + 3 females, and I'll watch them closely - if they are bullying one another, or if they just stick to one corner and leave the rest alone when spawning.

Last but not least - you're saying that those Nanoluteus are smaller and not as agressive as Honduran Red Point, correct?
Because if so - I'll have greater chance to be succesful with Nanoluteus in such a small tank.

 

[Wills]

I already have a 96l tank with platys (80cm x 30cm x 40cm) so maybe swordtails - though I never liked them really. Maybe Hyphessobrycon columbianus instead or some kind of tetra?

Ok, I do that - I'll get a group of 4-5. If they'll be big enough to tell "who's who" (gender wise) I'll get 1 male + 3 females, and I'll watch them closely - if they are bullying one another, or if they just stick to one corner and leave the rest alone when spawning.

Last but not least - you're saying that those Nanoluteus are smaller and not as agressive as Honduran Red Point, correct?
Because if so - I'll have greater chance to be succesful with Nanoluteus in such a small tank.

Yes nanos are less aggressive than HRPs. So I agree more likely to work here. Nanos need harder water than most common tetras blind cave might work but get quite big like Columbians. What about a rarer type of livebearers like skiffia or limia?

 

[Artur]

Yes nanos are less aggressive than HRPs. So I agree more likely to work here. Nanos need harder water than most common tetras blind cave might work but get quite big like Columbians. What about a rarer type of livebearers like skiffia or limia?

I'm not really that much into livebearers. Yes, I do have platys but that's their tank, 100% for themselves. Some rocks, plants. Any kid that walks in loves that tank the most (colorful, full of fish, big, small, fry etc.). Guppies are the only ones I like (to some degree) but I bet they'd be eaten by cichlids.
Is it necessary to keep something with Nanoluteus? Are they really that shy?

I know my Mesonauta festivus were very shy, when I added Corydoras Black and Nematobrycon palmeri they started to be more confident. Corydoras Black were added because they can withstand higher temps than other corydoras - I know they are artificially bred species, I don't like that either but at least they fit water specs in that tank the best.

If adding smaller fish is necessary, maybe:
Barbodes semifasciolatus (golden string/version) (Also called golden barb sometimes)
or
Hyphessobrycon flammeus

 

[Artur]

Bump, up.

Or something like that

 

[Wills]

They are shy so I think it would be worth doing - you may just be able to use good aquascaping and heavy planting to make them feel secure. Gold Barbs could be a good choice to go with them though.

I'd avoid any of the softwater tetras as they dont cross over much - maybe something like X-Ray Tetras because their range is so massive they are found everywhere, even in coastal waters.

Wills

 

[Artur]

They are shy so I think it would be worth doing - you may just be able to use good aquascaping and heavy planting to make them feel secure. Gold Barbs could be a good choice to go with them though.

I'd avoid any of the softwater tetras as they dont cross over much - maybe something like X-Ray Tetras because their range is so massive they are found everywhere, even in coastal waters.

Wills

Thank you, once again. If you'd be closer I would buy you a beer or two

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a pair of those (the seller only has one pair, so no chance for harem). He himself has a pair of adults, he said harems don't work with them so well.
I used water from my other, 100% healthy tank, as well as filtration media from that tank to be sure the tank is cycled correctly.

I'm using fine sand as a substrate, going to add few smooth rocks, as well as red moor driftwood.

I will think about adding gold barbs because I like them quite a lot, and since you're telling me they will make those cichlids more confident I'm even more into them.
I promise I'll share some picks with y'all when I come back from this roadtrip

 

[Wills]

Thank you, once again. If you'd be closer I would buy you a beer or two

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a pair of those (the seller only has one pair, so no chance for harem). He himself has a pair of adults, he said harems don't work with them so well.
I used water from my other, 100% healthy tank, as well as filtration media from that tank to be sure the tank is cycled correctly.

I'm using fine sand as a substrate, going to add few smooth rocks, as well as red moor driftwood.

I will think about adding gold barbs because I like them quite a lot, and since you're telling me they will make those cichlids more confident I'm even more into them.
I promise I'll share some picks with y'all when I come back from this roadtrip

Sounds great I'm assuming you have slightly hard water btw with all of this but in those the Gold Barbs would be a good choice - a very golden tank! You could look at doing a rock only scape for these as the wood could soften the water (but probably not much).

I really like this youtube channel for Central American Cichlid scapes

https://www.youtube.com/user/lee1973n

Wills