Stocking Levels

[waterdrop]

normally the standard internal filters you get with tanks like the juwels aren't brilliant, I would definatley not advise stocking to 2" per gallon with just the standard internal.

All filter manufacturers are a bit optomistic, when you buy a filter it'll say rated for tanks up to XX gallons. You'll want to get a filter that's rated for a tank half as big again as yours. So your tanks 190l instead of buying a filter which say's capacity of 190l you really want a filter rated for around 285l

You'll also hear people talk about filters in terms of tank turnover, to take an example with easy maths if you have a 100l tank and you get a filter that does 1000lph that gives you 10x tank turnover. You only need that much in specialist set up's such as marine tanks though, I can't remember exactly what is advised for standard community tanks but I'd assume around 5x tank turnover.

In the ideal world, one would stumble on TFF prior to starting the hobby and somehow know that it was good to participate in hardware discussions prior to choosing one's equipment, then participate in fishless cycling discussions prior to filling that new equipment with water and media. Since we all know it virtually never works out that way for a newcomer, we should relax and "go with the flow!"

I did happen to get a lot of advice in the Hardware forum prior to making my filter choice and setting it up. It certainly seemed that 5x turnover was the "guideline" (not rule) advised for newbies, but like so many other guidelines, its one of those things that changes quite a bit if you dig into discussions among the specialists. There are the specialists who have great big or messy fish and overstock their big tanks and so go way up over the 5x guideline. There are discussions in the Planted Tank forum about staying -under- the 5x guideline in order to create a more placid environment more conducive to plants that don't like fast currents.

My own feeling is that a new hobbiest like stormy, who has paid attention and worked hard to get a well-cycled filter and has prepared the tank well, would be well advised to not jump to conclusions about the Juwel filter or the number "3x" until giving things a try and paying attention to his test results for a given stocking level. Certainly it would be advisable to be moderately stocked initially below the 1" level just as worked out with MW. That should be perfect and then stormy, as you raise the stocking level by a few fish at a time you will just continue to test for ammonia and nitrites and see how fast the nitrates go up, just as always. It could easily be the case that the 3x filtration will handle a nice stocking maybe a little below the 1" level or right around it because waste levels can vary so much with different types of fish and plant deterioration levels.

Now an interesting thing to think about, and BTT and MW and others will be interested to comment too I'm sure, is what signs to look for as tipoffs that a filter is not handling the fish load! My own feeling is that the Nitrates will have gone up faster by the end of the week than you want - you will be feeling like your percent water change is not enough. Also, progressing to a worse case, you may actually pick up traces of ammonia and/or nitrite and realized that it is not getting processed quickly enough. Also if the flow rate begins to drop due to too much debris too early in the monthly cycle of filter cleanings, that is also a sign. Certainly, let's see if others agree with these signs or have others to add!

stormy, I think by working with your original filter and learning how it behaves and what the maintenance is like, you will go into any decision to upgrade to a bigger filter with more knowledge than if you were to just make a quick decision based on some numbers calculated here.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[stormy78]

Thanks Waterdrop that definatly makes sense. As you point out hindsight is a wonderful thing and I certainly would have made different choices if I was buying a tank now. I am definatly going to stick with the current iltration until the tank is established and then see what happens as I stock the tank a little bit more. Having done some digging the Pump 1000 will happily fit in my tank so if I do need to increase the turnover I can, although as you point out this may not be a good thing for the plants! I also think that there is potentially enough room to add another filter media sponge in the current filter thus giving more area for the bacteria to occupy, this wouldnt be 'pinned' in as the other sponges are but wouldn't move either about either. So I do have 'some' options with the current filter to improve it if I find it isnt handling the waste load well.

As it stands the filter does seem to be doing ok and I definatly think the plants are helping with the Nitrates. This morning Ammonia and NitrIte were 0.00ppm and the Nitrate was around 20>. I'm currently mainly 'lightly' feeding the current fish with a small pinch of Tetra granules and a tiny pinch of Nutrafin flakes. The Tetra's seem to get a majority of the food but some is getting to the Chiclids as the Tetra's miss some of the granules. Last night they had 2 bags of Brines shrimp and the tank went mad. I 'probably' slightly overfed yesterday with the live food but the water test were ok today. As a side note, does anybody have any tips for feeding the Dwarf Chiclids? this may be more of an MW question as she has mentioned she keeps them but if anybody has some input please fire away!

So in short, I wont be adding new stock for a while, I wont be replacing the filter for a while (if at all) and thanks once again to MW, BTT and Waterdrop for your advice! You guys must spend so much of your time helping people like me! It really is appreciated!!!

I think the big thing for me with regards to stock is that I added more Rummy Nose Tetra's than I initially wanted and this will impact upon future stocking, I would have liked 10 Cardinals, Rummy Nose and Black Phantom Tetra's. I have no intention of now removing the additonal Rummy Nose (they have had enough stress) so will have to stock around them accordingly, either dropping one of the other Tetra's or reducing them to 6 of each

 

[Miss Wiggle]

So in short, I wont be adding new stock for a while, I wont be replacing the filter for a while (if at all) and thanks once again to MW, BTT and Waterdrop for your advice! You guys must spend so much of your time helping people like me! It really is appreciated!!!

thanks stormy, it's no problem but it's always nice to know it's appreciated.

sounds like you've some future options for filtration which is good, as you know you can't add anymore stock for a little while anyway you can spend plenty of time researching and deciding what to do.

re feeding the dwarf cichlids, they can be a little hard to get feeding when they're young particularly, once they're settled they'll start to assert their dominance over the tank and will get plenty. However for now here's a few things to try. Firstly make sure you have some sinking food and some floating food, put the floating food in first at one end of the tank (if the cichlids have an area they like to hang out make sure you drop floating food in at the other end), the greedy fish will immediatley go and start gobbling that up, then drop some sinking food in at the other end of the tank preferably where the cichlids hang out and they should get that. If you keep doing this the cichlids will spot the pattern and know where to go for their food.

another option is to target feed the cichlids, this works best with live food or the frozen stuff. if you use frozen then stick it in a cup and let it all defrost, if it's not frozen just stick it into a cup, then get a syringe and suck up some of it into that. dump the rest into the tank then using the syringe go to where the cichlids are hiding and squirt out some food right infront of them. They'll run away the first few times so you've got to go steadily and carefully, but they learn and get a bit braver after a few goes at it.

hope that helps a bits

 

[stormy78]

Thanks MW, I have tried the feeding at different ends of the tank but not the target feeding. The biggest problem I face is the Cichlids tend to congregate where the flow from the filter hit the glass at the front of the tank hence all the food going around the tank lol The diet is pretty varied at the moment, this morning I put a pinch of the smallest sinking granules I could get and the Tetra's generally mop a majority of these up before they hit the bottom. The Cichlids do nibble at these but dont generally see the food! After the granules I added a tiny bit of crushed flake and again the Tetras get to it way before the Cichlids.

So I tried just adding a single whole flake and forcing it under the water, its too big for the Tetras and although they have a good go at it they cant break it up, low and behold the Cichlids finally got some food lol They tended to grab the flake then spit it out but eventually they all seemed to get some. They only time I have seen them all eating at the same time is when I have added either live or frozen food and they have gone mad for it, although one block of frozen food if far to much for the fish I have (I had to remove half a blocks worth on Monday) so I intend to cut it in half.

What would you recommend with regards to feeding patterens/how many times a day. At present I add a tiny pinch of 1 or 2 foods in the morning and then add another pinch on the evening with some frozen food. Is this acceptable or should I cut back. Generally I only add as much as they can eat in a few minutes, with the exeption of the frozen food on Monday.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

with the mini granules if you get a pinch of them and release it under the water instead of dropping it onto the waters surface then they should sink straight away so you can put some in like that and drop some on the surface too.

i just feed once a day but you can do smaller amounts twice a day if you like, use good quality flake/pellets as the staple food (despite what people say these processed foods are balanced to reflect a good diet for the fish so as long as you buy good quality stuff then that's the best for the fish) then they get 'treats' of frozen or live food something like once a week.

 

[stormy78]

I may cut down on the frozen food then and reduce the feeds to once per day on an evening. All of the food is good quality brands, Tetra, Hikari etc

 

[Miss Wiggle]

people often seem to think that because the live or frozen foods are 'natural' that they provide excellent nutrition, this is often not the case. The processed food's provide a mix of proteins vegetables minerals etc etc etc balanced to sensible proportions, you can generally pick up different varieties if you have fish who need a lot of vegetable matter or anything like that as well.

Live food to provide good stimulation for the fish though and most of them seem to really enjoy it so there's definatley no harm in feeding them, just not all the time (unless of course you have predatory fish or something like that who want a high meat diet..... although in this case the standard bloodworms, daphnia etc are not gonna cut the mustard anyway!)