Stocking conundrum

[Alex Kadyshevich]

Always loved white clouds as my 1st fish. Currently have 6 in my 75 ga tank, along with 5 torpedo line barbs, and red tail black shark
Hoped to introduce 7 tiger barbs (another favourite)... buy apparently there's a temperature problem.
Currently on 24c aok..but apparently tigers need 25, plus white clouds live shorter above 22.
Other residents happy at 22...but just got some great java moss...needs 24?
How critical are these temperatures?

 

[Byron]

One or two degrees rarely makes much difference (there are of course always exceptions). White Cloud Minnows do better with cooler temperatures, that is correct. But I would not think a temperature around 23-24C would be problematical here.

You do however have far more serious issues, and that is with numbers and tank size.

The Tiger Barbs are feisty and prone to nip fins, and a scientific study proved beyond any doubt that they must have 10=12 minimum, preferably 15 (or more, up to you). This is only fair to the fish, it is their inherent need.

The other barb, which I assume is Sahyadria denisonii, has a couple issues. It is generally peaceful, but should not be kept with smaller fish that will likely be seen as food. It's water flow and cooler temperatures limit suitable tankmates to medium-sized barbs and danios, loaches, Garra and Devario species. Must be kept in a group, minimum 8 but preferably 10+; reports of aggressive behaviour are most probably due to the fish not being maintained in a sizeable group.

If this were me, I would seriously rethink the Denison barb, since at 6 inches and an active lower level swimmer, it should have a 5-6 foot length tank which I assume woud be longer than the 75g.

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

Thanks for your advice. I'm afraid it's a bit late to rethink the Dennisonii barbs as they're already in situ...and seem very at home, seemingly loving the strong current. They've shown no inclination to bother the white clouds.
As for the tigers....well I'll take on board what you say...but I've kept 6 before and yes, a couple of them did seem to like going head to head ( remember when we called them 'kissing' gouramis) but no apparent damage ensued.
You're quite right that my tank is a mere 3.5 feet, though 2 foot deep...
I recently got a hand from an excellent clean up professional who advised I'd have more options if I 'lost' my red tailed black shark. But he's my baby and I've had him from the beginning.
Stocking options online always seem to suggest livebearers which I utterly reject .
Not only are they a damn nuisance, but when they inevitably breed their fry need to be eaten to avoid serious overcrowding (avoid kribs like the plague for the same reason). How's that for cruelty?
My fish are the nearest thing to pets I have, and though not overly sentimental, I genuinely care about them, and it would gall me to think that I was causing them suffering.
But I have to say, with all due deference to your experience, that I can't see that my proposed stock will do that.
For this reason I've never seriously contemplated buying clown loaches.
I live alone in a semi detached , and I can't honestly see how I could accomodate a larger aquarium.
I'm afraid mate, if we all adhere to your highest standards, a lot of larger fish will simply not find a home.

 

[Byron]

I stated what can be expected from healthy normal fish. You may see it in time, as they become settled. These needs are in the genetics of the species. Denying them adequate numbers or tank space in inhumane. Good luck.

 

[Fishies4Ever]

Since you only have 6 white clouds and they are small fish you could get a 10 gallon tank and put them in there with other fish that do well with colder water and add a few more for to have a bigger school. You could then add your tiger barbs to you 75 gal tank. If you don’t want a second tank I don’t think the temperature difference would be terrible just be careful and research if they are compatible with each other aggression wise because tiger barbs can be slight aggressive I am pretty sure.

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

In defference to byrons experience, and previous helpful advice I've decided to leave my current stocking level as is. Much as I love tiger barbs I really don't want to stress my fish.
Fish 384's suggestion is useful, but I really don't like small aquaria, as I feel they're much more difficult to keep healthy.
I'd rather take up byrons suggestion of a much larger tank...and curiously enough my local Indian has recently asked if I would like their much larger tank....if only I could find a place for it.
Anybody looking for a very large aquarium, possibly cheap or even free?

 

[WhistlingBadger]

If it were me, I'd get a bunch more white clouds and dennies, and forget the tiger barbs. Or get rid of the white clouds, get a few more dennies, and get a huge school of tigers. And keep an eye on (and have a backup plan for) that RTB shark: They'll turn on their tankmates when you least expect it.

Edit: Just saw your last post, so part of what I said is no longer relevant. Also, I am in the market for a bigger tank. Where is it (general area would do)?

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

If it were me, I'd get a bunch more white clouds and dennies, and forget the tiger barbs. Or get rid of the white clouds, get a few more dennies, and get a huge school of tigers. And keep an eye on (and have a backup plan for) that RTB shark: They'll turn on their tankmates when you least expect it.

Edit: Just saw your last post, so part of what I said is no longer relevant. Also, I am in the market for a bigger tank. Where is it (general area would do)?

In defference to byrons experience, and previous helpful advice I've decided to leave my current stocking level as is. Much as I love tiger barbs I really don't want to stress my fish.
Fish 384's suggestion is useful, but I really don't like small aquaria, as I feel they're much more difficult to keep healthy.
I'd rather take up byrons suggestion of a much larger tank...and curiously enough my local Indian has recently asked if I would like their much larger tank....if only I could find a place for it.
Anybody looking for a very large aquarium, possibly cheap or even free?

K

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

We're in Crawley mate..and if you're serious the tank they're offering is large and deep.
Last time I was in they had a beautiful pangassius cat as the last survivor.
You'd need a truck of some size to move it, with all it's techi stuff, and if I can be of any help?

 

[WhistlingBadger]

We're in Crawley mate..and if you're serious the tank they're offering is large and deep.
Last time I was in they had a beautiful pangassius cat as the last survivor.
You'd need a truck of some size to move it, with all it's techi stuff, and if I can be of any help?

Crawley, as in West Sussex? That might be a bit difficult, as I'm in Wyoming, USA. I do have a truck of some size, but the Atlantic crossing would probably be bad for the engine...

 

[Wills]

I have to agree with Byron on a lot of this I think for Denisons 4 foot is the bare minimum for me but a 5 foot would be good, I think a 3.5 foot is snug for such active big species. For a 3.5 foot tank you'd have been better with Oddessa Barbs.

Have you looked on things like Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree for a bigger tank? If you can figure out space (and living alone I don't suppose you have someone telling you not to like me haha!) I'd go for a 5 foot tank as it sounds like you'd enjoy it, be able to keep the fish you want and get a stunning tank in return. Since you are at 300 litres now if you got something like a Juwel 450 most of your equipment would probably be ok with it and the water volume isnt so much greater that maintenance would take much longer.

In terms of compatibility with the white clouds I've never heard of Denisons eating smaller fish, feel their mouths are too small for white clouds, maybe super nano fish like Chilli Rasboras.

Wills

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

Crawley, as in West Sussex? That might be a bit difficult, as I'm in Wyoming, USA. I do have a truck of some size, but the Atlantic crossing would probably be bad for the engine...

Ha ha....shame about that pal

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

I have to agree with Byron on a lot of this I think for Denisons 4 foot is the bare minimum for me but a 5 foot would be good, I think a 3.5 foot is snug for such active big species. For a 3.5 foot tank you'd have been better with Oddessa Barbs.

Have you looked on things like Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree for a bigger tank? If you can figure out space (and living alone I don't suppose you have someone telling you not to like me haha!) I'd go for a 5 foot tank as it sounds like you'd enjoy it, be able to keep the fish you want and get a stunning tank in return. Since you are at 300 litres now if you got something like a Juwel 450 most of your equipment would probably be ok with it and the water volume isnt so much greater that maintenance would take much longer.

In terms of compatibility with the white clouds I've never heard of Denisons eating smaller fish, feel their mouths are too small for white clouds, maybe super nano fish like Chilli Rasboras.

Wills

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

Love the idea mate...a 5 foot tank sounds great, and it's not as if I couldn't afford it.
Trouble is can't imagine where I'd put it.
You're right I have no nag to object...and my house is a fair size.
Maybe without the 8 x 4 ft model railway in the living room I could accommodate it there.
Besides which what would I do with the existing tank?...well sell it I suppose, but the transfer would be tricky to say the least.
Really like the idea though...beginning to wonder if I could fit the larger tank. Would stick out into the body of the living room, but possibly do-able
Hmm...clean up pro who helped me before might ( for a price) make this happen.
Suspect tank you recommend would be shallower though, and do like the aesthetics of the 2 ft deep.
Food for much thought.

 

[Wills]

Love the idea mate...a 5 foot tank sounds great, and it's not as if I couldn't afford it.
Trouble is can't imagine where I'd put it.
You're right I have no nag to object...and my house is a fair size.
Maybe without the 8 x 4 ft model railway in the living room I could accommodate it there.
Besides which what would I do with the existing tank?...well sell it I suppose, but the transfer would be tricky to say the least.
Really like the idea though...beginning to wonder if I could fit the larger tank. Would stick out into the body of the living room, but possibly do-able
Hmm...clean up pro who helped me before might ( for a price) make this happen.
Suspect tank you recommend would be shallower though, and do like the aesthetics of the 2 ft deep.
Food for much thought.

I mean large aquarium and model railway is 100% living the dream!

If moneys not too much of an issue maybe a custom made tank would be an option? A 5x2x2 would be an awesome size tank for you? Or you could look at the Oase Highline range which has a peninsular option so its designed for a short side of the tank to go against a wall and act as a room divider the 400 would be great - Waterbox do a range of this as well.

And just in full transparency I have 0 problem with being a bad influence with buying big aquariums!