Starting A New Tank, Need Help.

[zophie]

Hey!
In a month, I am statring my first fresh-water tropical aquarium. I need some help, with picking the fish. So, it's going to be a 20 gallion, with live plants. I was thinking 6 Cherry barbs, 4 Fancy Guppies, and 6 Neon Tetras. Is that too much?? IF its to little, then I was thinking mabey 2 small angelfish. I really want the barbs in my tank, the neon tetras are iffy, and I don't reallu care abou t the Guppies. So, culd you please let me know what fish would do well with Cherry Barbhs, thinking along the lines of guppies and tetras??
So, the tank will be 20 gallions, with a heater, filter, and it will be cycled. My plans were something like this:

pH: around 7.0
Temp: 75-80 F.
Water Hardness: 10 dH
Diet: Combo of flake food, and frozen food.

S, does that sound good?
Oh, and one more thing. I herd that guppies eat their yound]g, so I am going to get all males - but will they fight? Cherry Barbs eat their eggs. Should I let them? I don't really want to many babys, but I was just wondering is it healthy to eat the eggs? And finally, should I get male and female Neon Tetras? I don't really know anything about there reproduction.

Well, thankyou!1

Zophie

 

[electropunk06]

not too sure about barbs and tetras but i have 3 male guppies and they get along fine. they keep out the way of the danios but have had there tails nipped slightly : (

 

[waterdrop]

Fish and other animals that eat their eggs and/or their own young are behaving in an instinctive manner that follows a system common in nature. By scattering a large number of eggs or young, a greater number of genetic offspring with different mutations are "tried out" in the environment. No where near all of these "trial" young will make it and the adult animals are preserving their own stored energy (their bodies expended considerable energy transforming food into eggs or young) so that they increase their own survival changes and the chance that they can again scatter "trial" young of the species in the future. It is a different adaptation than very high order humans and other animals that have very few offspring and expend considerable nurturing energy on after birth. The adult fish eating their own eggs or offspring is perfectly healthy for them.

Your new stocking plan sounds just fine to me, at least up until you mention the angels. Unfortunately, angels need about a 30G minimum tank and a vertical height of 17" minimum. The reason is the huge vertical height the fish can get to when it gets old and mature!

I noticed in your other threads that you mentioned some things about cycling. Even though you may never have done a fishless cycle previously, it will be important for your new 20G and of course the kinds of stocking plans you are discussing here are a fun activity during the weeks or months that the biofilter for the new filter is being grown and tested. Do you have a cycling plan?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[zophie]

Fish and other animals that eat their eggs and/or their own young are behaving in an instinctive manner that follows a system common in nature. By scattering a large number of eggs or young, a greater number of genetic offspring with different mutations are "tried out" in the environment. No where near all of these "trial" young will make it and the adult animals are preserving their own stored energy (their bodies expended considerable energy transforming food into eggs or young) so that they increase their own survival changes and the chance that they can again scatter "trial" young of the species in the future. It is a different adaptation than very high order humans and other animals that have very few offspring and expend considerable nurturing energy on after birth. The adult fish eating their own eggs or offspring is perfectly healthy for them.

Your new stocking plan sounds just fine to me, at least up until you mention the angels. Unfortunately, angels need about a 30G minimum tank and a vertical height of 17" minimum. The reason is the huge vertical height the fish can get to when it gets old and mature!

I noticed in your other threads that you mentioned some things about cycling. Even though you may never have done a fishless cycle previously, it will be important for your new 20G and of course the kinds of stocking plans you are discussing here are a fun activity during the weeks or months that the biofilter for the new filter is being grown and tested. Do you have a cycling plan?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop,

thanks for all the information!!! I am defintly going to be cycling the tank, this is my first cycle with a big aquarium (I hva had only betta fish, and other tropicle fish in small tanks) so it will be fun!! I won't be getting angle fish, you were right. The other day, I went to the petstore and talked to a lot of people. They recomended fish, and I looked at prices. So this is my new game-plan.
5 Neon Tetras
5 Rummy-Nosed Tetras
5 Cherry Barbs
4 Fancy Guppies.

Does that sound good??? I am open to any advice, so please tell me what you think....

Thanks alot!!

Zophie

 

[waterdrop]

OK, I like this stocking plan in a number of ways. I think the sizes the fish will grow to are pretty reasonable (the rummy's might get the longest.. cherry barbs are small by barb standards but I don't know ultimately which would likely end up bigger, the cherrys or the rummys.) Even more important, the dispositions of all these fish (the barbs and the tetras) are nice, they are good community players (guppies of course rarely even notice anybody else, much less bother them lol.) You've already stated that your ok with getting only male guppies, which I think is smart for your beginning year or two so you won't be having to deal with an expanding bioload due to babies.

One area where these 4 vary more widely is pH/hardness preference. The neons and to a lesser extent the rummys, I think, are pretty far to the south american soft acid water pref, whereas the guppies, like most livebearers, really like some hardness in their water to thrive. Let's see, we know you've stated that your local water is 10dH and 7pH, so you're tending to look neutral to soft (more in the neon direction) but how the tank water itself will really settle out may be somewhat different. How did you arrive at your 10dH number?

So on the hardness/pH question the jury is still out somewhat for me. The proposed grouping might just all do fine because the water may not be extreme in either direction. On the other hand it could be that the guppies would be sickly because they find it too soft/acid. I'd like to hear what OM and Assaye and others feel.

I've also not addressed the temperature prefs of the 4 species. I've not had guppies in a long time so I don't have their temp prefs in my head but I remember some interesting discussions by Neale or OM or both that I wish I had filed away. The other 3 species will all be pretty normal temp-wise but it'll still be interesting to compare.

Hope this helps kick off your stocking plan. I like to think of a stocking plan as something that can linger and be discussed for a long time, thoughout most of the fishless cycling and then should start to get firm and definate once the fishless cycle reaches the third phase after the nitrite spike is over.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

With a GH of 10 degrees and a pH at least at 7.0 or a bit above, guppies should be fine. My own GH is only about 12 degrees and I keep tons of livebearer species. Of course I have a KH of about the same value and a pH of 7.8 so I am off in the right direction for most livebearers.