Started Cycling

[MontyJ]

After a disastrous start, our new 29-gallon long tank (30”L X 12”D X 18” H) is fish-less cycling. It took a lot of driving to find clean ammonia, free of surfactants, but I managed to find it at a small hardware store about 20 miles away. The ammonia passed the shake test with zero foam.

I did the math and determined that approximately 13ml of the 4% solution should give me about 6ppm ammonia concentration in the tank. I added the ammonia, waited an hour for it to circulate then tested the water and got a reading higher than 4 but lower than 8 which are the two highest readings on the chart that came with the API master test kit. It doesn’t have readings for 5, 6, or 7. I am assuming my math was correct and it’s somewhere around 6ppm.

I created a spreadsheet to record twice daily test results that will be taken at 12-hour intervals, 7:00am and 7:00pm.

I am somewhat concerned about my current pH levels being 7.8 since ammonia will raise the pH further. It will require further monitoring, especially after water changes that should bring the pH down. Food for thought…I wonder if anyone has done a study on the protonation of ammonia in a near neutral pH aquarium environment? Without the addition of an acid, I doubt it would occur anyway…just my mind rambling.

As for what kind of fish we are getting, I have no idea. We would like a community tank with a few groups of different species. This is actually my daughters tank, so more colorful fish would be better.

So there you have it. Time to start learning about aquatic plants…I really hate the plastic ones we bought. Those have got to go.

***Log follows as changes occure:

DAY: 1 4-13-11 1930 Ammonia: 6ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 0ppm pH: 7.8 Temp: 83 Light: on 0700 off 2030 Start-up
DAY: 3 4-15-11 0700 Ammonia: 4ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: n/a pH: n/a Temp: 77 Light: on 0700 off 2000
DAY: 9 4-21-11 0700 Ammonia: 4ppm Nitrite: .25ppm Nitrate: 0 pH: 7.6 Temp: 76 Light: on 0645 First measurable Nitrites
DAY: 10 4-22-11 0900 Ammonia: 4ppm Nitrite: 1.0ppm Nitrate: n/a pH: n/a Temp: 74 Nitrites quadrupled in 24 hours
DAY: 11 4-23-11 0800 Ammonia: 4ppm Nitrite: 2.0ppm Nitrate: 0ppm pH: n/a Temp: 76 Nitrites doubled. Some change in Nitrate color.
DAY: 12 4-24-11 1900 Ammonia: 4ppm Nitrite: 2.0+ppm Nitrate: 5ppm pH: 7.6 Temp: 77 Nitrites rising, Nitrates at 5ppm Ammo not budging yet.

Skipped dates indicate no changes detected.

 

[Randi]

good luck!

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Monty.
There is not much point in twice daily testing until you start seeing some progress in your cycle. That could easily take 2 weeks. Please be careful about how high you drive the ammonia. At 4 or 5 ppm, the right bacteria will develop to process ammonia for you. At 8 ppm, the dominant species of bacteria will not do well as the ammonia drops toward zero. Since we try to run our tanks near zero ammonia, those bacteria will be almost no help once you are cycled. You really would do better holding a nice steady 4 ppm or less to ensure that you have the right bacteria growing for you.

 

[MontyJ]

Thank you for the welcome and the advice. Since start up, the level has dropped to about 4ppm (after two days) and has held constant. I'm testing twice a day so I can track exactly when changes occure. I'm monitoring ammonia, nitrites and pH at the moment, as well as when the light is on and off and water temp at test time. We plan on starting other tanks in the future, so this data will help me understand better how the fish-less cycle works. This is really not much different than when I began gardening many years ago. Plants need a specific soil to grow; fish need a specific water to thrive. Lucky for me, fishkeeping is much cheaper than gardening.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with OM47. There's not much point in getting a bunch of zero readings for nitrite for the first week or two and using up your testing reagent, much less doing it twice a day. Once a day testing of ammonia and pH should be fine and then perhaps a few tests for nitrite on the weekend. Remember, many fishless cycles take about 70 days, so you have a long road ahead potentially. On the other hand you could be lucky and have it go faster.

You are in the first of 3 phases of fishless cycling. During this first phase you are mostly just waiting for ammonia to finally make its initial move to zero from that first dose of 4-5ppm. Once it does that it will usually move fairly rapidly to doing it within 24 hours of dosing. About that same time (although it can happen before or after that time) you should start to see some traces of excess nitrite(NO2) and then fairly rapidly that should move upward to the limit of the nitrite test.

That marks the beginning of the 2nd phase (the "nitrite spike" phase) and it is often longer than the first phase. Each 1ppm of ammonia processes into 2.7ppm of nitrite, so the excess nitrite will quickly grow beyond what the new little colony of nitrite oxidizers can handle for quite a long time. Eventually though the nitrite spike phase will break and finally those "N-Bacs" will work through all the nitrite and leave it at zero within 24 hours of dosing.

That marks the beginning of the 3rd phase (the phase after the nitrite spike) and during this final phase you'll be finally doing some watching at 12 hours to see whether the two colonies of bacteria can lower both the ammonia and nitrite to zero within shorter and shorter times until they can do it in 12 hours. Sometimes one or the other will seem to stick around for a long time at a trace level prior to you getting the desired "double-zero" readings.

Once both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) are cleared from 4-5ppm to zero ppm within 12 hours, you are ready to start your "qualifying week," which just means you'll watch the biofilter repeat the double-zero feat in 12 hours each day for the week leading up to getting fish. A total water change will clear the nitrate(NO3) from the water and prepare you for your first fish introduction, which by then you will hopefully have planned out with the help of the great members here.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[MontyJ]

I don't mind the endless zeros. This is actually my youngest daughters tank and the repeated testing gives her lots of practice. She is 10, so the more practice, the better. It will also get her into the habit of checking the water regularly once the fish are in. She will never be without supervision, but she will be the primary caregiver in time. She has more patience than many adults. Each 4ppm ammonia and 0 Nitrite reading garners the same response from her "Nope, not yet."

 

[fluttermoth]

I always find that children are far more patient that adults often give them credit for.

One of the things I hear a lot is that kids "don't have the patience to wait for a fishless cycle", which you've just proved is utter rubbish. If you can get them involved in the testing too (my lot love helping me test water; makes them feel like scientists with all the test tubes!) it's even better as then they understand why they can't get the fish right away.

I hope you and your daughter enjoy doing the cycle

The high pH won't be a problem as the ntrifying bacteria prefer more alkaline conditions. I'm not aware of any studies on the protonation of ammonia in a neutral pH, but have always assumed that any significant protonation takes place only in acidic conditions (it does in an aquarium situation anyway).

 

[MontyJ]

I think J.B. (my daughter) learned a lot of her patience from gardening. We grow a huge garden every year and start all of our plants from seed. She understands that seeds don't germinate overnight, and when they do germinate they must spend time in the greenhouse until the weather, and the plants health, are adequate for growth. Testing the water is much like testing the garden soil (of course the soil goes to a professional lab to be tested) in that the test results dictate action. If the soil's not ready, the plants don't go in; if the water's not ready, the fish don't go in. When she asked when the water would be ready, I told her that it would be ready about the time we pick green beans. She understands that. So now we are waiting for the ammonia to start dropping so we can log it as a milestone.

 

[fluttermoth]

I wish I was as good a gardener as your daughter will be as a fishkeeper I hope your cycle doesn't take too long though

 

[algir]

Welcome! I have found that cycling is a "hurry up and wait" type process. Be patient, and the ends will justify the means! Good luck!

 

[MontyJ]

First measurable Nitrites appeared this morning. Edited the OP to show the log.

I wish I was as good a gardener as your daughter will be as a fishkeeper I hope your cycle doesn't take too long though

Make you a deal...help teach us fishkeeping and I'll teach you everything you ever wanted to know about gardening

 

[FraggyFragbait]

Hi Monty,
Hope that you are finding the fishless cycling bareable - I am currently on day 12 of my cycle and have just started to see some proper action...feel free to check out my log.
No-one else has mentioned it yet so I thought I would drop it in...if you can get your hands on any mature filter media from anyone it will greatly speed up your cycle. I haven't managed to get my hands on any, but the vast majority of those that have have had significantly quicker cycles.
How's the research going on the stocking?

 

[MontyJ]

Actually, the fishless cycle doesn't bother us at all. We garden a lot and grow everything from seed so we are used to waiting, and waiting...and waiting. I can't find any mature media. We live in the country and don't know any other fishkeepers. Not a big deal though. It will cycle eventually. We have looked into a few varieties of fish, but haven't made any decisions yet. Some on the list are Harlequin Rasbora, Pentazona Barb, Tiger Barb, Cardinal Tetra, Banded Gourami. Not leaning toward anything right now, just making a list to sort through later. We are more interested in colorful schooling (shoaling?) fish though and would like to avoid anything that multiplies easily. We would like to keep the fish on the smaller side (1-2 inches) with maybe a couple of medium sized ones (3-4 inches) for contrast.

 

[FraggyFragbait]

Quite a lot of those ones are also on my list too...have you thought about guppies? As long as you keep them in single sex groups they will not multiply like mad, and are very colourful!

 

[MontyJ]

We thought about guppys but have decided against them. I don't know the difference between a male and female, and frankly, I don't trust the lfs to know the difference either. Just based on past experience with them of course.