Spinning, Somersaults In Fish

[Fishy Fishy Mom]

Suggestion from a fish novice: 3 weeks ago I had a fish that was spinning and doing somersaults, then lying upside down (ventral side up) in the plants gasping for breath. All else looked good and he would swim normally if I cupped him in my hand in the water until he settled down, then let him swim out. As soon as he tried to come up to the surface, the spinning would begin. Local fish store said he'd be dead in a few days and I didn't see any other suggestions on the web.

I placed him in a very shallow bowl that would prevent him from assuming a vertical posture (tail down, nose up) and he looked great: no longer gasping, normal respiration rate, and was eating well. After one week in the shallow bowl, I began to increase the water depth. He is now able to assume a vertical posture to come to the surface and is no longer spinning. I will try to put him back into his 8 gallon bowl this weekend to see how he does.

I am hoping he had a vestibular disorder that has now passed. It may very well be that these "spinning fish" die of exhaustion and lack of food rather than that which has thrown their orientational system out of wack. Would love any feedback from others!

BTW: this is an unknown fish -- got him out of the local creek with a bunch of tadpoles; he's been in a bowl for 3 years now.

 

[WILDER]

Spinning can be due to bad water qua;ty, internal parasites, brain damage, swim bladder.

Did he look bloated.
It sounds like swim bladder to me. The fish will look like the tail is weighing them down in the water with swim bladder.

He really needs to be in a tank.

What type of fish is he?

 

[Fishy Fishy Mom]

Hi Wilder; thank you for your feedback.

Fish type -- your guess is better than mine. These fish are seasonally in the arroyo by the thousands here in coastal So California. They are non-descript, coloration similar to a mosquito fish but the body shape is not that of a mosquito fish. I've seen adults to be about 1.5 inches long which leads me to believe that my guy is stunted (1.25 inches at 3 yrs) due to his bowl size. Yes, he does need to be in a tank; I never thought he'd live this long. Maybe I'll get a picture this weekend and post.

I thought he might have parasites or had picked something up from three other like baby fish (same type) I put in his bowl for company, this spring (when the creek ran again). Those fish died. ??? Needless to say, I was not surprised when Fishy Fishy began showing abnormal behavior. Fishy Fishy should really be named: Survivor

But, he was not bloated; was not positioned head up / tail down. I changed the water, twice actually, without any change in symptoms - water used is either well water (which is cleaner than the creek water but from the same source) and / or well water that has gone thru a reverse osmosis filter system + UV radiation to kill any bacteria. No difference. Same water he has been getting for 3 years.

I'm just wondering, if anyone else has a fish behaving in a manner involving spinning and somersaults that if they could put the fish in a shallow bowl - thus constraining the fish from performing those movements, if the fish would survive thru what ever malady was plaguing it, permitting return to his/her normal home once the "illness" has passed. Worth a try and sure beats losing a prize fish. My theory is that the fish die from exhaustion verses what ever is causing it to spin.

Tomorrow I will be placing Fishy back in his bowl and will report on his status. Keep fingers crossed.

 

[WILDER]

How long has he actually been spinning for.

Signs of internal parasites are -
Spinning.
Looking skinny or bloated.
Sunken in belly.
Bent spine sometimes.
Fish will sometimes swim on it's side.
Long stringy white poo, clear poo, or red poo.
Red inflamed anus, or enlarged anus.
Worms prutruding from the anus.
Spitting food out, not eating.
Also parasites can cause brain damage as well as organ damage, Secondary bacterial infections.

When you change the water do you match the temp of the bowl water.
Can he maintain balance in the water.
Has he ever jumped out of his bowl and damaged his swim bladder.

 

[WILDER]

Also need to look at your water stats.
Ph and toxins can also cause darting and spinning.


http/ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Diagnose-Sick-Fish-In-Your-Aquarium&id=569326

 

[Fishy Fishy Mom]

Well, I am sad to report that Fishy Fishy did not do well with re-entry into his 8 gallon bowl. He was swimming just fine for about an hour, after which he began to do his spinning routine. Could it be the bowl Returned him to his shallow "bowl" and he is fine. This certainly has me puzzled. I may have to just put him in the 10 gallon tank with a low level of water from this point forward. With every water/bowl transfer I am careful to adjust the water temp to be close to the same. I do not have a pH meter at this moment, but this is a great point. I may consider borrowing one or finding some strips to test the water. He did jump out of a transfer container, once, maybe twice, well over a year ago. Could there be a delayed response due to some damage during land-fall?? I still think he may have contracted something from the babies I put in a few months ago.

I've attached a pic; not a very good one, but the best I could muster. He's camera shy.

 

[WILDER]

Not familar with these type if fish but he dosn't look good to me.
Fish can swim in circles fast with a swim bladder problem.
Does he look skinny to you.

When you change his water is it the whole bowl.
Does his bowl have a filter?

 

[Fishy Fishy Mom]

Fishy Fishy update: relatively no change. Tried once again to return him to his bowl -- same as before - spins and somersaults so returned him to his shallow container. I plan to get an aquarium this weekend that will afford him more room to roam but allow for only an inch or so of water depth.

He does not look bad to me; does not look skinny -- looks pretty much like the other adults I see in the creek. He looks essentially the same as he has for 3 years with the exception that he is a bit longer/larger and his pectoral fin also grew during this time. For 2.5 years he was in a glass bowl, no filter, with full bowl water change every 2 weeks (or sooner if needed). As a still water fish, he did very poorly when I put him in one of those BioOrb bowls (8gal) with the the central filter. The filter was too strong. Sucked up one of the baby fish and made the rest of the baby fish and Fishy swim for their lives. Could not find a smaller pump on the market, so I went to periodic runs of the filter with Fishy out of the bowl - but this didn't seem like a good idea since with the filter off for several days I imagined all sorts of bacteria, etc having a breeding orgy in the filter. So I scrapped the filter and just returned to full bowl water changes. It was around this time that Fishy began behaving poorly.

the pump is a "Reef One" 1.5 liters per minute. Is there a smaller pump on the market that you know of?

He seems to do just fine in shallow water so I will keep him in this type of environment for now. I held off feeding him for a couple of days thinking possibly the food was causing a problem (dry flakes of tetramin ground fine).

All I can say is that the shallow water appears to be "keeping" him alive at this point.

 

[WILDER]

If the fish is fine in shallow water it's sounds like his swim bladder.

Do you have any antibiotics.
I would only use antibiotics in isolation as they wipe the beneifical bacteria out in the filter

Causes of swim bladder.

Birth defect of the swim bladder
Injury
Bad water quality
Bad diet, to many dried foods
Bacterial
Internal parasites
Unstable temp

 

[Fishy Fishy Mom]

Wilder - wonderful list for causes of swim bladder issues; thank you. I would not be surprised about the dry diet since this is far from normal for this type of fish. What do you suggest for non-dry fish food?

What particular type of antibiotics are you suggesting? And are you suggesting to put them in the water w/o Fishy, or with Fishy (this is the only fish I have at the moment). This is obviously a charity case. He came with the tadpoles we were trying to save from drying up in the arroyo.

Are swim bladder issues reversible?? I read something about feeding peas as a management (not cure) strategy

 

[WILDER]

If you use antibiotics you can never return the fish back to the wild.


You do add the antibiotics to the water. Or you can add the antibiotic to there food.

The antibiotics with only work if it's an infection of the swim bladder.

You can reverse swim bladder if it's an infection and caught it in time, if its caused by to many dried foods, bad water quality, internal parasites if they haven't caused to much damage.

Peas are good if the fish have constipation and needs flushing throw.

If it's and injury and its severe you can't reverse it.
You can have a fish swim bladder removed and replace with a stone or soemthing like that., that's a vet procedure.

 

[Tsalagi]

Suggestion from a fish novice: 3 weeks ago I had a fish that was spinning and doing somersaults, then lying upside down (ventral side up) in the plants gasping for breath. All else looked good and he would swim normally if I cupped him in my hand in the water until he settled down, then let him swim out. As soon as he tried to come up to the surface, the spinning would begin. Local fish store said he'd be dead in a few days and I didn't see any other suggestions on the web.

I placed him in a very shallow bowl that would prevent him from assuming a vertical posture (tail down, nose up) and he looked great: no longer gasping, normal respiration rate, and was eating well. After one week in the shallow bowl, I began to increase the water depth. He is now able to assume a vertical posture to come to the surface and is no longer spinning. I will try to put him back into his 8 gallon bowl this weekend to see how he does.

I am hoping he had a vestibular disorder that has now passed. It may very well be that these "spinning fish" die of exhaustion and lack of food rather than that which has thrown their orientational system out of wack. Would love any feedback from others!

BTW: this is an unknown fish -- got him out of the local creek with a bunch of tadpoles; he's been in a bowl for 3 years now.

 

[Tsalagi]

Fishy Fishy Picture You posted of unknown fish from your creek appears to me to be a female guppy. Female guppies look very similar to skeeter minnows often colorless males having most of the color. They survive very nicely in creeks lakes & ponds. They look like minnows but like Skeeter minnows are not in the minnow family Skeeter Minnows are in the carp family more closely related to a goldfish than a minnow. More likely a parasite was introduced when You added new fish to her bowl the other thing that was introduced was worse water quality & lower oxygen levels simply caused by more fish waste & more fish using up available resources.

 

[seangee]

This thread is from 2010...