Some Newbie Questions....

[Gr44]

Hi,

I bought my first fish tank after years of wanting one... It's 52L in size and I got it yesterday. I've placed all my substrate in the bottom and put a few rocks/slates/wood and plastic plants. The filter and heater have been running for nearly 24hours now and I'm keen to get some fish swimming around!

A couple of questions though;

I have loads of tiny air bubbles clinging to the side of the tank... whats the best way to get rid of these?

The filter keeps slipping down the side of the tank (has 4 small suction cups to hold it on) - Best way to keep it in situ?

What fish should I look at for this size tank? I know I need to add just 3-4 fish to start with for a week or two to help get the bacteria in the tank.

I've been looking at the 'Tropicalfish4u' store to browse... a lot of the Tetra fish need larger tanks than mine.. such as the Penquin Tetra (100L)

But I'm thinking a few Black Neon Tetra's to start with... then maybe a Blue Betta (can you only have one of these??) and a few Guppys.

Finally... can I put some fish in today?

I'd love an Angelfish but too big for my tank I think

Any help/guidance please?

Thanks,

Sean

 

[glolite]

Hi Sean

Welcome and congrats on your new tank. I hope I've answered a few of your questions below


Hi,

I bought my first fish tank after years of wanting one... It's 52L in size and I got it yesterday. I've placed all my substrate in the bottom and put a few rocks/slates/wood and plastic plants. The filter and heater have been running for nearly 24hours now and I'm keen to get some fish swimming around!

A couple of questions though;

I have loads of tiny air bubbles clinging to the side of the tank... whats the best way to get rid of these? This is due to the new water and will disperse naturally over the next few days.

The filter keeps slipping down the side of the tank (has 4 small suction cups to hold it on) - Best way to keep it in situ? Can you sit the filter on a rock? I've had this problem before.

What fish should I look at for this size tank? I know I need to add just 3-4 fish to start with for a week or two to help get the bacteria in the tank. It's better and quicker to do the fishless cycle. Read the cycling threads in the pinned articles in this section.

I've been looking at the 'Tropicalfish4u' store to browse... a lot of the Tetra fish need larger tanks than mine.. such as the Penquin Tetra (100L)

But I'm thinking a few Black Neon Tetra's to start with... then maybe a Blue Betta (can you only have one of these??) and a few Guppys.

Finally... can I put some fish in today?

I'd love an Angelfish but too big for my tank I think Yes too big.

Any help/guidance please?

Thanks,

Sean
[/quote]

 

[OldMan47]

I would avoid putting any fish in today. The filter that comes with a tank is only a piece of hardware. To become an effective biological filter it needs to develop a colony of bacteria. The process is called cycling. There is a guide to fishless cycling here in the beginners resource center which is at the top of the New to the Hobby section. There is a link to fishless cycling in my signature area.

 

[Gr44]

Thanks for the replies... It looks like the fishless cycle takes around 2 weeks.. is there no way to speed this up? (Call me impatient!)

Also... is the filter I was given with the tank big enough? It's an Aqua One 101F (400L/h) ?

Thanks,

Sean

 

[glolite]

The only way to speed up a cycle is to add mature media from an established tank. There's a list of members willing to donate mature media in the new to the hobby section. Fishless cycling with ammonia can take around 6 weeks but with mature media plus ammonia it can be 2 weeks.

Obviously you are impatient to put fish in as it's exciting but honestly fishless cycling is the best way to go. Fish in cycling can take longer than fishless plus you are stuck with doing daily large water changes for many weeks if you want the fish to survive. With fishless cycling there's no water changes until right at the end.

If I were you I'd go the mature media plus ammonia route. Quickest, safest for the fish and less hassel.

 

[Gr44]

Awww, I want some fishies!!!

Well I've sent an email to my local 'mature media doner' to see if he is able to help me... so we shall see!

I guess I'll get hold of one of thoe API Master Kits and some Ammonia in the mean time.

Evil LFS making me think I could have fish within a couple of days I keep peeking in to the tank expecting to see something!!

Any thoughts on the filter I was given as well... I'd hate to do all this and find the filter isn't suitable!

Thanks for the help glolite.

 

[glolite]

Aww it's a shame. Never mind, concentrate on cycling and you'll soon have happy, healthy fishies.

I think the Aqua 101F is suitable up to 40 litres so may be a bit small. You could get another of the same size and run 2 filters though. That way, if one breaks down your fish will be safe with the back-up.

Your lfs may be able to give you some media if there's no joy from here.

Happy cycling.

 

[waterdrop]

Think of the years you've spent wanting a fish tank (as you've mentioned in your first post.) What that says to me is that you are not the typical "spur of the moment" buyer! It probably means you have a real interest in the hobby!

Fish are unlike other pets that can just be brought home from the petshop and fed. Crafting and understanding their underwater environment is a bit trickier, just as you'd naturally think, even as a child. The LFS, wanting to make money, tries to make people forget this and just buy!

You've stumbled across a true hobbyist site with lots and lots of great members. You're in luck if you're willing to do your homework and interact with them. The fishless cycle is a fantastic way to force yourself to have the time to learn the basics prior to actually putting the fish into the environment you're making... besides the making of the environment is fascinating and fun too, if you just get in to it and let it be!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gr44]

Thanks both... just ordered a tester pack from eBay and I'll nip to Homebase either today or tomorrow and get some Ammonia.

I've just found the box for the filter that came with the tank... it actually says the following on it;

'MAXIMUM FLOW = 350L' '5w' and more worringly 'Suit tank size 20L'

I feel a trip back to the LFS to ask them why they include a filter that is less than half the size of the tank....

Any one got advice as to what filter to buy assuming this is no good? I'd rather an internal due to space!

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks both... just ordered a tester pack from eBay and I'll nip to Homebase either today or tomorrow and get some Ammonia.

I've just found the box for the filter that came with the tank... it actually says the following on it;

'MAXIMUM FLOW = 350L' '5w' and more worringly 'Suit tank size 20L'

I feel a trip back to the LFS to ask them why they include a filter that is less than half the size of the tank....

Any one got advice as to what filter to buy assuming this is no good? I'd rather an internal due to space!

Are you sure its not 20g? Also, the approach I'd take would be one that appears positive to the LFS person and was aimed at negotiating some value from the old one put towards the price of a more serious filter. The other problem though is that ideally you might need more time than you've given to researching the right filter.

You're right on schedule realizing that the filter choice needs attention. Its really perhaps the most core hardware bit of the hobby, although tanks are an overall system, giving virtually everything some importance. Flow rate is one of the factors. The 350L designation, if correct, will be telling you that it could probably move 300 per hour under real conditions and would very nominally just make it to about 5x turnover of your tank water, getting you to the starting gate in a reasonable way, but eventually leaving you wondering whether something closer to a 500L/H rate would have been better. The neighborhood of 500 would keep the water moving better, working against algae problems and you could always redirect the flow in different ways if it seemed too strong for some of the fish.

Flow rate is only one little parameter though. The big player is media volume and this is why one senses a "pecking order" begin alluded to in comparisons between internals, HOBs, externals and sumps. The media volume numbers usually move steadily upward through that list. Mother nature usually provides near infinate "media volume," so what we do is almost a joke by comparison. The other surprise for beginners is that experienced aquarists are quite "do it yourself" about filter media. Often, late in the game, the beginner is disturbed to finally figure out that their filter manufacturer didn't "figure it all our right" for them. Instead, the filters for sale are often "designed" ok, but then have aspects of their "media choices" taken over and controlled by marketing folks who work hard to try and get steady, frequent, repeat sales of expensive "media cartridges" and the like. This turns out to have very little correlation with what an experienced fishkeeper is trying to acheive with their media.

A typical aquarium filter is designed to perform three functions: mechanical filtration, biological filtration and optionally, chemical filtration. Mechanical filtration is usually the only function that a beginner ever thought a filter was needed for, catching little particles of debris. Indeed, nearly all forms of media perform some of this particle catching function and it is important. As one can imagine, there can be different media optimized to catch large, medium and small particles.

Biological filtration is the surprise player. The "biofilter" as we call it for short, is actually "the big trick" that aquarists have had up their sleeve for many decades. I had benefitted from them in the old days without ever understanding them and when I finally really learning the details about them here on TFF I was fascinated! Its actually rather bizarre to realize what they do and how effective they are. We can talk about those details later if you like.

The filter is also a place where one can optionally put "chemical media," typically carbon or zeolite, but these are only for special temporary functions and these things should not be in the filter usually on a regular basis.

A big part of choosing a filter is the flexibility of the media holding spaces it provides and how flexible they are for your needs. Also, the extent to which the filter makes your regular cleaning and maintenance and priming chores easier is important.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gr44]

Thanks Waterdrop.

Yeah, it's 20L for sure... not Gallons. I guess this will do me for a little while and I can pick up another when I need to. The whole lot came to £90 which included the tank, heater, filter, gravel, 2 rocks, 2 slates, 2 pieces of wood and 2 plastic plants... also some de-chlorine and goldfish food. I'm not too worried!

I've just nipped to a local store and bought some Ammonia (my god... don't open and breathe in... my eyes and nose are killing me!) and also an API Master Test Kit (waaaay more than online... but oh well!)

I just tested the pH on the tank using the normal range kit and it showed as 7.6+ so I tried using the high-range and it shows as 8-8.2.

Testing the tap water and it went over the normal range kit - 7.6+ but using the high range kit showed as 7.4 or lower... so a little confused there!

These readings are from the tank it's self (water from the tap with de-chlorine stuff - sat for ~24hours)

pH = 8.0-8.2
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrate = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm

The dimension of my tank is approx. 600x290x290 which holds approx. 50-52L of water...

I'm going to add ~2.65ml of Ammonia to my tank - I will setup another thread with my cycle information from now.

Many Thanks for all the help... please keep it coming!!

 

[waterdrop]

It sounds like your tap water pH is right about at the line between the low and high test kits, no big deal. After the water comes out of the tap, a fair amount of somewhat acidic CO2 can gas off, causing the pH to rise a bit and also the dechlor might raise it a bit, which together probably explains your tank pH of 8 to 8.2 (which happens to be quite ideal for growing the beneficial bacteria I'm sure you'll be glad to hear.) When you add ammonia that can further raise the pH a bit but once the fishless cycling process has been going for a while, and particularly after nitrates(NO3) are finally being produced, the cycling process will begin to absorb any buffering your water has and when and if it uses the buffering up, it will begin to exert a downward push on the pH. Its important to measure pH, just like ammonia and nitrite(NO2) as the process proceeds. If pH falls to 6.2 or below, the bacteria will still be ok but it won't be growing.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Your tap water pH of 7.4 to 7.6 may be caused by the pH being affected by CO2 dissolved in the water. When you suddenly take the pressure off the water by running it out of the faucet, the CO2 comes out of solution and the pH rises. It is a very common reaction to see. It is nice that you are starting with clean water, clean meaning all zeros in the chemical tests. It will make it much easier to interpret what is happening in your tank as you go through the cycling process. If you got the 2.65 ml value from the calculator, try adding only 2 ml and measure the result. Calculated is nice but the real world seldom matches exactly.