So Much Has Changed !

[Strangerover]

Years ago I had a 3ft tank... 3ft wide x 18" high x 15" deep - no idea what capacity that was..

Anyway.... tropical fresh water...

Knew nothing much about chemistry just made sure PH was right and that the tank was left long enough to de-chlorinate.

I added plants.... not too many and then some fish... not many...

Never changed water..... just topped it up...

Never really had problems with fish dying.... and water was clear and no funny smells.....

SO ....

15 years later I buy a 48" reef bow fronted tank... 48" x 18" x 16" at widest... - what capacity ??

I have set up with Fluval filter a U40.. also fitted is a trickle filter...
Plants are in 8 small bunches...

I was planning on waiting a week or so.... then add a couple of small catfish and some Tetra's about 8 fish in all....

then wait a couple of months before adding any more...

Now from all the reading on here and elsewere it seems like this will be a waste of time...

thing is its what I did years ago.... and I have a larger volume of water now than then..

I never (well once or twice a year) did water changes... just top ups...... was I just lucky ??

I never did keep that many fish in the tank....

thoughts advice welcome...

 

[K-Holed]

The amount of fish you kept probably had alot to do with it. The more the fish waste is being diluted, the less of a problem it is and may have never reached overly toxic levels.

 

[kirztie14]

The amount of fish you kept probably had alot to do with it. The more the fish waste is being diluted, the less of a problem it is and may have never reached overly toxic levels.

YEA i would have to agree on the amount of fish

 

[rewlyn]

hi and welcome back the capacities of your tanks are
old tank 159l/35gal
current tank 227l/50gal

nothing ever is how it used to be

 

[Rediahs]

Low stocking combined with cycling-with-fish. Works fine, lots of people do it.

This forum generally recommends fishless cycling just to be safe for the fish, since cycling with fish causes damage to the fish. But if your fish are hardy, they'll live.

I'd say it's part luck, and part, it's what most people do anyway. Sometimes the fish die and sometimes they manage their way through it until the tank is cycled.

The addition of plants is a huge help, since plants will also process harmful fish wastes. This will keep the nitrates down (which aren't that harmful, but when combined with no water changes, can increase to levels that DO harm fish. But the plants eat nitrates too).

I'd recommend fishless cycling this time around, just because it's nicer to the fish and less risky. Cycling with fish gives you immediate gratification - you get fish right away! But it isn't as good for them and it's riskier, is the major problem.

Ultimately, do what you think is best. If you're an immediate gratification type of person you might choose to just do it the way you always did it... and especially with the plants inside, it should help.

 

[meguro]

People would be able to give better advice if you said how committed you're willing to be to tank maintenance and how patient before you want to add fish.

As you've read, it's better to go about things differently than you did in the past. But as your experience shows, it isn't necessary.

 

[Strangerover]

People would be able to give better advice if you said how committed you're willing to be to tank maintenance and how patient before you want to add fish.

As you've read, it's better to go about things differently than you did in the past. But as your experience shows, it isn't necessary.

Commited... well a 50L tank in the living room is not a step we took lightly.... LOL

patience if I'm honest is not my strongest point......

But I am determined to have decent plants that are actively growing before I add fish....

What would you class as a light population for the size of my tank ??

If I opt for fish in cycling what fish would you guys go for ??

My thinking is some of the small Catfish are hardy little buggers (thinking of their natural habitat)

Also... before I go off to the aquatic centre and get ripped off.....

Anyone any idea what water is like in the Liverpool area ? (North Liverpool)

thanks...

 

[waterdrop]

Low stocking combined with cycling-with-fish. Works fine, lots of people do it.

This forum generally recommends fishless cycling just to be safe for the fish, since cycling with fish causes damage to the fish. But if your fish are hardy, they'll live.

I'd say it's part luck, and part, it's what most people do anyway. Sometimes the fish die and sometimes they manage their way through it until the tank is cycled.

The addition of plants is a huge help, since plants will also process harmful fish wastes. This will keep the nitrates down (which aren't that harmful, but when combined with no water changes, can increase to levels that DO harm fish. But the plants eat nitrates too).

I'd recommend fishless cycling this time around, just because it's nicer to the fish and less risky. Cycling with fish gives you immediate gratification - you get fish right away! But it isn't as good for them and it's riskier, is the major problem.

Ultimately, do what you think is best. If you're an immediate gratification type of person you might choose to just do it the way you always did it... and especially with the plants inside, it should help.

This was a very good post I thought by Chrissi. I agree that a lot of it comes down to the kinds of things you can get gratification out of. When I came back after being away from the hobby for many years, I gradually found myself fascinated by the changes that had taken place during the intervening years, including the new understandings about things that hurt fish and things having to do wtih water chemistry. The enjoyment of a beautiful tank and of the entertaining fish I knew would come back and be the same as before but I was surprised how this additional thing of now being able to learn and understand what was behind some of the things I'd always seen going on was also quite interesting. I also found it quite interesting that a forum like this provided a window into the thinking and experience of people who had a lot more experience than I ever did.

Its totally up to you as an individual whether you would find any of these sorts of details to be of interest, but if you do then there's plenty here on tap. One of the things I realized was that I had not fully understood the significance of biofilters in my time years before. Understanding them is really interesting I think.

One area where you may have been lucky was to apparently not have experienced "old tank syndrome," which could have easily happened to you give the very few water changes. It happens when only the pure water evaporates from your tank (that's what happens) and all the trace minerals, heavy metals and various organics are left behind to concentrate more and more over time. Eventually the water parameters are so different from your tap water that a significant water change can be a big stress on the fish!

Anyway, just wanted to share that, perhaps like you, I'd had various successes but after studying here I ended up changing most, if not all of my habits and I'm quite pleased now that my fish seem to be just bursting with vigor and health, in a way that might have only happened at peak times in those years long ago and now I feel my knowledge of the hobby allows me much more flexibility and confidence.

Note that if you have the patience for it, there is an entirely new related hobby referred to as that of the "planted tank" and a tremendous amount can be learned now about the keeping of aquatic plants. The downside is that its possibly even more complicated than fish to fully understand, but it you're determined about the plants then they're the ones who hold the truths about that area. You'll perhaps have to figure out where to compromise on learning all that stuff but still being able to get your tank up and started, lol.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rediahs]

This was a very good post I thought by Chrissi.

It's strange sometimes how I feel like I know more of the recent knowledge than many people who have been keeping fish for years. I only started a few years ago with a betta, never had anything since, currently fishless cycling my first real tank, a 29 gallon... times sure have changed when a newbie is teaching the oldies lessons!!! I just lurk this forum wayyyyyyyyyy too much.... I've soaked up so much knowledge from these forums, sometimes I feel my head is going to burst trying to cram more in.

 

[ellena]

I've been talking to my dad about this fishless cycle. He had a marine tank about 30 years ago and a tropical tank after that up to about 10 years ago.
He hasn't said so yet, but I know he's thinking "What the hell are you faffing about at? Get some fish in!"
The LFS he used always said "fish just want to be wet and warm" apparently!
His tank was never brilliantly successful though-not a shining example of the method
I think now we know a bit more of the science behind it and the damage you can't see that happens to the fish, a few weeks' patience is nothing
And I don't say that lightly-I've been cycling since easter and I'm nearly finished but go on hols in 2 weeks, so it's gonna be no fish until I get back!

 

[Strangerover]

Well it is all very interesting reading....

My own personal take on it all.....

large volume of water + small number of small fish (e.g. 5-6 small neons) + plants should allow the filters to get their bacteria build up slowly.....

The little neons will not make much waste for the volume of water there...

The plants give off oxygen and absorb Nitrate....

This may sound harsh and maybe not fish freindly... but £5 for some fish that give instant pleasure is worth it... if they die then I'll have to re-consider...
but from what I have read I think they should be fine...

I will be waiting untill I see signs of plant life first though....

here are some pics of today showing the water has cleared some what !!!

first pic is from yesterday !

I'll be waiting a bit yet....

Also.... if i where to populate the water with daphnia... instead of fish... what effect would that have ??

Finaly... anyone in Liverpool with a used filter pad I could use to spread bacteria with ?

 

[meguro]

I think if you washed/rinsed out your gravel/substrate before adding it to the tank, your water would be clearer. But the filter should be able to clear it in a week or so.

I've been cycling since easter and I'm nearly finished but go on hols in 2 weeks, so it's gonna be no fish until I get back!

You might have to get someone to keep adding ammonia to the tank while you're away on holidays. Otherwise the bacteria colony would starve/diminish in size. Depends on the length of the holiday I guess.

 

[Strangerover]

I think if you washed/rinsed out your gravel/substrate before adding it to the tank, your water would be clearer. But the filter should be able to clear it in a week or so.

I've been cycling since easter and I'm nearly finished but go on hols in 2 weeks, so it's gonna be no fish until I get back!

You might have to get someone to keep adding ammonia to the tank while you're away on holidays. Otherwise the bacteria colony would starve/diminish in size. Depends on the length of the holiday I guess.

I did I washed it many times with hose and strainer but the gravel is the source ! Still its only 4 days old !

 

[degsod]

Itsthe same here, I used to keep tropicals when I was younger, I ended up with 16 tanks of various sizes, 8 of them being 16 x8 x8 for breading guppies, neons and kribensis.

Apart from the breeding tanks where the water was changed frequently (no cycle) the main tanks never had regular water changes, they where just topped up and cleaned out once a year. I never had any problems with fish dying.

However after reading the forums i believe I was just lucky or maybe the fiah where more hardier. I would never consider putting fish in an uncycled tank.

Its a pity that this info is not frely available from the lfs

 

[craig855s]

ellena id recomend putting fish in as soon as u are cycled to keep the filter being fed with ammonia,get an auto feeder or a friend so they dont starve.

Or you'll prb have to spend a few more weeks cycling when u get back