Slowly But Surely Getting There....

[ArticFox82]

Hi guys (sorry for starting a new thread). Basically I joined the forum just under a week ago, Ive purchased a Juwel Lido 120 and started my fishless cycle on Thursday and so far so good. Ive been doing daily tests which all seem to be going well (I think ive spent majority of time since I joined reading up on the great info you offer). Saturday night I came home to find my water after being clear had went very cloudy, Sunday was the same, I got up this morning and we were back to crystal clear again - to be sure I went to my LFS and they said not to worry its all going ok (im a bit of a worrier.

Anyway now I think I need some help, I want to plant my tank with live plants so actually bought from what looks a good supplier on ebay, for a starter any advice on this?

Also within the tank, I dont plan to have a 'No Fishing' sign, but what would you recommend for decoration on the bottom of the tank to compliment the plants and provide a good enviroment for my fish (once they are introduced)?

Now for the most important part, stocking. Hopefully by th weekend I will be introducing a small number of fish to take the cycling to the next level, was thinking about 10 neon tetras, but after that I really dont know what I should go for? Ideally Id love a couple angels, maybe a red tail shark and also read loaches are good for keeping things clean. Basically looking a good beginners community aquarium but so confused on what I do or dont want!

Any help appreciated!

 

[anwhyte]

Hi guys (sorry for starting a new thread). Basically I joined the forum just under a week ago, Ive purchased a Juwel Lido 120 and started my fishless cycle on Thursday and so far so good. Ive been doing daily tests which all seem to be going well (I think ive spent majority of time since I joined reading up on the great info you offer). Saturday night I came home to find my water after being clear had went very cloudy, Sunday was the same, I got up this morning and we were back to crystal clear again - to be sure I went to my LFS and they said not to worry its all going ok (im a bit of a worrier.

Anyway now I think I need some help, I want to plant my tank with live plants so actually bought from what looks a good supplier on ebay, for a starter any advice on this?

Also within the tank, I dont plan to have a 'No Fishing' sign, but what would you recommend for decoration on the bottom of the tank to compliment the plants and provide a good enviroment for my fish (once they are introduced)?

Now for the most important part, stocking. Hopefully by th weekend I will be introducing a small number of fish to take the cycling to the next level, was thinking about 10 neon tetras, but after that I really dont know what I should go for? Ideally Id love a couple angels, maybe a red tail shark and also read loaches are good for keeping things clean. Basically looking a good beginners community aquarium but so confused on what I do or dont want!

Any help appreciated!

hi, firstly i wouldn't keep angels with neon tetra's, the angels see them as food! also loaches can get very big & aggressive. Zebra danios/harlequins/gourami's/platys are all nice community fish. apple snails are good at scavenging or a corydoras or 4.

 

[aly_starh]

Wood, Terracota, Pebble Caves, Lots of hiding places.

Don't get neon tetras, they are not hardy at all, there for once the tank is really really mature, except get zebra danios. They are peaceful community fish. Angles will be nice as centre piece fish.
Its time to decide on your middle level fish! If you want to wait till the tank is mature get neon tetras, but if you want to get them sooner, another type of tetra can be ok, lookup on the forums here, using the search option. Peoples previous posts are really helpful!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi ArticFox82 and welcome to TFF!

Introducing a small number of fish into a tank without a working filter, what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation", is usually done in error or without the benefit of modern cycling information. It is still done by people with heavily planted tanks, following a different method or by very experienced aquarists but in general its a system that for beginners and mainstream hobbyists has been replaced by "Fishless Cycling." Fishless cycling is much easier and more controlled and ensures the longest life for all your fish.

When fish move water through their gills, they produce ammonia as well as CO2 (unlike mammals!) and fish waste, uneaten fishfood and plant debris leave organic molecules that are all quickly broken down in the tank water by heterotrophic bacteria to form more ammonia. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts, causes permanent gill damage, leading to shortened lives or death.

When experienced hobbyists buy a filter kit, its a bunch of hardware to which they apply their experience to grow two specific species of bacteria which will form what we call a "biofilter." This process can take anywhere from 3 weeks to about 2 months if one does not have any previous fish tanks to take bacteria from. Prior to testing and determining that the biofilter is ready, the tank is not really ready for live fish.

The first of the two bacterial species, the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (we call them A-Bacs for short) will eat ammonia and produce nitrite(NO2), which unfortunately is also a deadly poison for fish, just like the ammonia. Nitrite(NO2), even in tiny amounts, attaches like oxygen to the fish red blood cell protein called hemoglobin and destroys it, changing the red blood cell into brown mush. Since oxygen is not being transported, the fish brain and nervous system are the first to be damaged and ultimately the fish suffer shortened lives and death if the nitrite is strong enough.

The second bacterial species (the N-Bacs) which are the nitrite oxidizing bacteria will eat NO2 and change it into nitrate(NO3), which is much less harmful to fish and can be removed with weekly water changes to maintain a healthy aquatic environment. Getting the feel of this miraculous tool, the biofilter, is one of the core skills of the freshwater tropical fish hobby and performing your first fishless cycle is a great background to interacting with the other members here and using the time to develop a first-rate stocking list of fish that go together and learning about other things in the setup of a good tank. This is not an everyday place you've stumbled on to, its a true hobbyist site. Good luck and I wish you the best in your cycling decisions.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ArticFox82]

Cheers Waterdrop, I have been doing a fishless cycle for a week now, gonna keep it going for another week but everything is looking good so for.

As for fish selection speaking to another guy tonight Im thinking of the following:

8 x Cardinals
1 x Siamese Flying Fox (if I can find them)
2 x Angel Fish
1 x Blue Betta

Can anyone see any problems with the above? Really not sure of this inch rule for overcrowding but is that to much for my Lido 120?

Would ideally like a couple catfish in there to?

 

[toshapetriji]

I would take another look at the fishless cycle instructions. Your tank is a long way from ready for fish. Adding fish now is going to result in them visiting fishy heaven fairly quickly.

As Waterdrop has explained you need a (cycled) working filter before adding fish.

 

[arobinson1984]

Hi articfox,

You need to keep on with the fishless cycle until it has finished, there is no way on controlling how long it takes you just have to let nature take it's course.

On your stocking, the cardinals like neons should only be put in tanks older than 6 months, putting them in early on would pretty much guarantee deaths.

What are your tank dimensions? Height x depth x length in inches please

Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Cheers Waterdrop, I have been doing a fishless cycle for a week now, gonna keep it going for another week but everything is looking good so for.

LOL, not trying to give you a hard time, its just that we so often have a lot of misunderstanding about the term "fishless cycling." Where did you find your pure ammonia? That's always of interest to the members as its hard to find sometimes.

A fishless cycle is not based on time at all. If starting from scratch, there's pretty much no way to grow the correct bacteria in less than about a month, so two weeks just wouldn't accomplish anything. Instead, there are some test procedures that show you clearly whether your filter is ready or not. It can be a bit hard to understand without studying the whole process in our article but it basically comes down to this: Once you can add 5ppm of ammonia to the tank/filter system and observe that both the ammonia and the nitrite(NO2), as measured with liquid-reagent based test kits, has dropped to zero ppm in less than 12 hours after the original ammonia was added, you know you are likely to be cycled and can then just "observe" it repeatedly doing this for a "qualifying week," after which you can perform a 90% water change and introduce up to a full stocking of fish.

Perhaps you're already quite familiar with this and have been adding ammonia for some time, it just didn't sound like it, which has been the reason for my persistence.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[coldcazzie]

You might find that the angels don't mix so well with a betta, or vice versa. Betta's tend to get tetchy around anything that looks even vaguely like it might be another betta (ie, anything with long or flashy fins/tails) so that usually means angels, guppies etc are out as tankmates. That's just my experience - you might find a placid one who is happy to share his space with other fancy fish, but I doubt it!

Maybe replace the betta with some kind of bottom feeder? Tank dimensions would help so can picture how big it is.

 

[Rediahs]

The terminology can sometimes be a bit confusing. I understand that, to a beginner, a "fishless cycle" might sound like what they have been recommended by their local fish store - that they leave the tank running without fish for a few days before adding them.

However, leaving a tank with nothing in it does not in any way "cycle" the tank. It's unfortunate that the word "cycle" is often misinterpreted to mean "just let the filter run for awhile".

I hope you are really doing a fishless cycle, and not simply letting the tank run. If you are unsure, you should check the thread here.

Sorry if you already know this. Just checking. The way you are talking about "I'll let it run 1 more week" in one of your posts just makes me suspect that you are misinterpreting the term, but of course I am not sure.