Slow turn over on new tank.

[jaylach]

Looks like the tank is about good to go. Ammonia is still dropping and the water is the next thing to being totally clear.

Here is where it is at. Even though my avatar is small you can see the difference in how much the water has cleared.

<edit>
Up late and decided to do another ammonia test. Total ammonia is down to 0.5 PPM which equates to 0.0005 PPM of NH3 according to the calculator I was led to. BTW, as to the calculator for NH3 I've been entering zero for salinity. Is that proper for fresh water tank entry? I mean it is fresh water and I've added zero salt so imagine that the salinity would be zero.

As to appearance I love the way the tank blends in. If you will notice the little curve of wood on the front of the couch's arm rest and the hour glass the substrate blends in well as does the table with the black of the tank. I HATE air gaps between the water and hood but can't fill with more water and have the built in filtration work properly. I'll use black electric tape to mask out the air space. All in all I think it is coming together pretty well.

 

[jaylach]

Now I'm even more confused. I THOUGHT things were going well as a few days ago the ammonia test went down to something like 0.5 PPM.

I decided to just let the tank 'steep' for a few days and cut down on the flake food dosage. The only real difference between then and now is adding the pump to re-establish the built in filtration. Before bringing back the built in filtration I vacuumed the filter chambers along with the substrate. It all looked good.

This evening I did an ammonia test and it came up as 4.0 PPM. I just don't get it!

Tomorrow I'll do a major water change but oddly when done before it didn't seem to affect the ammonia level even right after a 50% change. When I got the API master test kit the ammonia bottle #1 was not fully closed and leaked a little. I wonder if I could not be getting false results due to the #1 ammonia bottle not being sealed resulting in false results.

I mean the fish are totally happy and showing zero signs of any stress. Actually the colors of the black skirt tetras and the pleco have improved with the skirts on the tetras becoming darker and the pleco, after being ill, has returned to the normal dark colors.

I think I have to replace the ammonia test fluids as the fish just seem to me doing too well for the variety of test results for ammonia. I mean the pleco is almost at full sail as to the dorsal and romping on anything available. The tiny cory is all over the place and the 6 black skirts are totally active and chasing bubbles.

If the ammonia was to be as high as the tests show for this long I'd expect to see signs of stress in the fish which I have not.

I also still have a bit of haze in the tank but I'm beginning to think that may be due to over oxygenation. I mean I can see minute little bubbles floating in the tank. I think that I probably need to cut down the air flow to my under gravel risers a bit.


Current filtration is a 93 GPH pump powering the built in filtration which is just using the sponges and ceramics, no carbon. The tank just being a 20 gallon cube I figure the 93 GPH pump is cycling the tank water ~4 times per hour. The under gravel filtration is stronger with each air riser being driven by a Whisper 40 air pump.


Am I thinking in the right direction?

 

[jaylach]

Oh, I also wonder if the slight 'haze' in the tank might not just be algae forming as the pleco is often mouth climbing all over the fake tree trunk and plants. Has to be something there that he likes and that would probably be algae. It could also be an over abundance of free oxygen due to my having excessive air flow. I don't consider either case a real problem but may cut down the air flow through under gravel air risers if I can ever find decent brass or stainless valves. All the valves I've been able to find are plastic and junk..

I mean the fish seem to be in full color and totally active. Too late tonight for me to bother but I may do a nitrite test tomorrow. If I show any nitrate level I would think that it would enforce my thought that I'm getting false results on my ammonia tests. Does that make any sense?

In past years I relied on the fish to give indications on anything being wrong with the water to a large extent. Currently the pleco is mostly in full sail (dorsal fully erect) and actively mouth walking all over the place. The little albino cory is also VERY active and all over the tank. The 6 black skirts are active and chasing air bubbles and each other through the openings in the fake tree trunk like they are playing tag.

While it has been a long time and I've never really kept tetras I can see if a fish is in distress and I'm seeing zero signs of stress. If the ammonia was actually as high as I'm seeing I believe that I should be seeing stress in the fish which I am not which makes me think the test fluids are likely compromised.

 

[AmyKieran]

First I offer thanks for confirming my thoughts on the sponges bu I still don't get mandatory water changes on a larger tank. If you have seen some of my other threads you know that I'm VERY old school. With my little 20 gallon cube I know I will need to do water changes but I don't understand why it is mandatory with larger tanks. Shoot, way back in 1987 when I left Ohio and left behind a 30 gallon tank it was perfectly healthy and I had not done a water change for over three years except for adding water due to evaporation. On a regular basis I tested the water but saw no sense in replacing water when all was perfect. We replace water too often just due to being told to do so. Why replace water that tests perfect with new water that we add stuff to make it just like what we removed? Should we block off the water sources in nature to replace the water with what we just blocked?

I REALLY just don't get it. 25 years ago you could set up a 30 gallon tank that would form a self sustaining ecology with very little maintenance, could do the same with salt with a 50 gallon. Bacteria makes a tank live, not water changes. Ya, I have the ceramic rings in the built in filtration but that is not natural. Natural is having the the substrate as the biological filter as it gives the largest filtration surface. I'm sure that I could design a system to use the current favorite filtration to draw through the substrate but I doubt it would be as efficient as air risers.

If I could totally block off the built in filtration system I would going totally with the under gravel filtration but that would cause stagnation within the built in filtration cambers.

I just don't get it. Going old school I could turn over a tank in a week just by 'planting' dead feeder golds in the substrate... Shoot, forget the old school stuff except; that thing would have one quicker if I had stuck with the old stuff. .

Well I’m only 23 so I can’t exactly comment on the way things were done years ago lol but to understand why water changes are necessary, you first must understand the nitrogen cycle. Which applies for all tanks of all sizes

Fish poop and waste is converted into ammonia

Ammonia is converted into nitrite

Nitrite is converted into nitrate

If you have a good, stable amount of beneficial bacteria then the ammonia and nitrite will convert so quickly then it won’t even show up on a test. There is no bacteria that can convert nitrate into something else. So to remove this nitrate, we do water changes. Any long term exposure to high nitrate (20+) can be detrimental to the fish. The water changes remove as much as the nitrate as it possibly can (that’s why the bigger the water change, the better) then the nitrates will build up again til next water change

Hopefully this has helped in any way shape or form lol

 

[Colin_T]

Tiny little air bubbles in the water are usually from a leaking power filter sucking in air. Check any filters for loose connections and make sure they aren't drawing in air.

Have you checked the tap water for ammonia?

 

[jaylach]

Tap water shows something like 0.25 ammonia. The tank is currently showing between ..5 and 1.0 Ammonia; call it 0.75 PPM. PH shows either a bit below or above 6.0. On the Ammonia testing I keep getting varied results. I got an API Master test kit on-line. One of the ammonia test bottles was not fully sealed and leaked a bit. I don't know that I can really trust the results as the bottle that was leaking could be compromised. Currently nitrite shows zero. I need to replace the ammonia test fluids to be sure that I'm getting an accurate result.

As to the slight fog in the tank and bubbles I really don't think there is any air leak. I just did a 50% water change and the fog remains. I MAY be totally off the wall but believe the fog is caused by too high of an oxygen infusion. The tank is just a small 20 gallon cube. The filtration is 93 GPH through the built in filtration and two under gravel plates each with their own riser driven by a Whisper 40 on each riser. I could be totally off the wall but I think the haze is caused by an overly excessive oxygenation.

The problem is that I can't control the air flow on the Whisper air pumps and they are running full flow. May sound strange but I can't find any usable air flow valves that actually work. All I can find locally are cheap plastic things that just don't properly work. I would LOVE to find a couple of brass or stainless steel valves but have come up with nothing. Anyone able to help as to valves? From past experience years ago I'd prefer brass. Bronze can be found but I won't use as bronze is infused with oils.

To be honest I believe the tank is OK by my 'age old test'... that test is the fish and they all seem quite happy with good colors and good appetites. All the fish are very active and eat well and have good color. May be old school but I sort of feel that the actions and appearance of the fish is the best test. LOL! The danged pleco is all over the fake tree trunk both inside and out. The tetras are very active and play 'tag' and chase bubbles. The little cory is all over the place just zipping all over the tank. It seems to me that it has been long enough that, if I had water issues, the fish would be showing symptoms.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I am sure that the US variant of Amazon will have these...or similar...stainless steel airline valves

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072X7XFZW/?tag=

There are several vendors listed, just a question of pick and choose.

 

[jaylach]

I am sure that the US variant of Amazon will have these...or similar...stainless steel airline valves

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072X7XFZW/?tag=

There are several vendors listed, just a question of pick and choose.

Thanks for the info. I will check them out. I just find it frustrating that it seems so hard to find simple items that used to be every day items.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Thanks for the info. I will check them out. I just find it frustrating that it seems so hard to find simple items that used to be every day items.

If all other normal avenues fail, always check eBay and Amazon etc cos they normally have what is being looked for

 

[jaylach]

If all other normal avenues fail, always check eBay and Amazon etc cos they normally have what is being looked for

Haven't done eBay but have searched Amazon for valves and came up with zero. I mean I've found valves on Amazon but am not going to buy something that has 40% negative reviews.

I REALLY do think the light haze is a matter of too much air flow. Just the little tiny free floating air bubbles are a sign of this. With the 'feature fish' I want I also need to lower the air flow to make the tank more calm. I want some Laetacara Dorsigera. If I can see tiny air bubbles flowing through the tank the air flow is too strong for these critters as they seem to like calmer waters.

I mean I bought a valve pack at the local Petco that included like 6 air valves. Three were totally nothing with absolutely nothing as to air control. Two of the other three were either full flow of nothing. The last was kind of functional but not consistent. In other words the pack was useless.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Tie a knot in your airline and see what difference it makes...tighten or loosen the knot accordingly. No point buying valves if that is not the cause of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

eBay US....

stainless steel aquarium airline valves for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for stainless steel aquarium airline valves at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

Amazon US....

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=stainles...e+valves,aps,309&ref=nb_sb_noss&tag=ff0d01-20

Plenty of suppliers of the metal valve that you say you want. Maybe you need to word the search a little more simply...."stainless steel aquarium airline valves" or something similar.

 

[jaylach]

Tie a knot in your airline and see what difference it makes...tighten or loosen the knot accordingly. No point buying valves if that is not the cause of the problem.

LOL! I TOTALLY love your test. While not thinking about making knots I had already thought about using the clip type paper clips to restrict the air flow. I mean the type of paper clip that could also be used to seal a bag of chips. Actually such clips could be used just like a valve depending on how much restriction is put on the air line.

I will have to play with the above but I DO believe that the haze is due to too much air. To me the indication is the tiny air bubbles flowing through the tank. All the air outlets are in the upper quarter of the tank yet I see these tiny bubbles in the lower parts of the tank. If the tank were not being over oxygenated I don't believe that I should be seeing these little bubbles in the lower tank areas.

I may also change the fan type output for the built in filtration from vertical to horizontal. Currently being vertical a lot of the output is above the actual water level causing a LOT of turbulence resulting in even more air bubbles being put in the tank...,

Actually quite possible that I have too much air flow and filtration going on.

 

[jaylach]

eBay US....

stainless steel aquarium airline valves for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for stainless steel aquarium airline valves at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

Amazon US....

https/www.amazon.com/s?k=stainless+steel+aquarium+airline+valves&crid=I7SGB92SKJLQ&sprefix=stainless+steel+aquarium+airline+valves,aps,309&ref=nb_sb_noss&tag=ff0d01-20

Plenty of suppliers of the metal valve that you say you want. Maybe you need to word the search a little more simply...."stainless steel aquarium airline valves" or something similar.

Thanks very much for the input, I will check out.

 

[Colin_T]

Have you wiped the glass down to see if that removes the fog?

Most air pumps have a small screw in the side that holds the air chamber inside the pump. If you loosen the screw a little bit, it lets some air leak out and doesn't put any back pressure on the pump.

If you get a plastic T-piece and a plastic tap for the airline, you can fit the T-piece into the airline about 6 inches away from the pump.
Put a 12 inch length of airline on the 3rd part of the T.
Stick the plastic tap on the end of the 12 inch length of airline.
Adjust the tap to bleed some air out while leaving the rest to go to the tank.