Sky High Ammonia In Overstocked Tank

[rustyspurs]

hi everyone, ive been bit of idiot ad overstocked my tank before its cycled,i have the following:

Tank size:4ft by 1 ft by 1 ft
pH:unknown
ammonia:second worst colour on the chart
nitrite:lowest colour on chart
nitrate:0
kH:?
gH:?
tank temp:26.5

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): its just my fighter showing symptoms at the min, black gills which i think is ammonia burn.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 24 litres or nearly 6 gallons which i put at about 20%, every morning.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:none

Tank inhabitants:2 bala sharks, 2 danios, one angel fish- i know the balas grow but ther only two inches at the moment

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):4 danios, 10 tetra neons, 1 fighter- my wife came home with them after lfs said it was fine. ive also added three plants, bacopa caroliniana and one i cant find the name of.

Exposure to chemicals:none

i spoke to the lfs who told me that daily water changing would save the fish, though as the poor fighter is suffering and they allowed my wife to buy them in the first place, i have come to the opinion they would say anything for a sale.
ive been getting them to test the water evey other day( the shop is miles away) and the ammonia seems to stay sky high, it is the deepest colour on their chart even though i brought them water straight after a change. WILL WATER CHANGING SAVE MY FISH
any advice please even if its angry advice

 

[fatheadminnow]

to TFF!!!!

What kind of test kit are you using? I have to say the LFS is right this time, and that doing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down is the only way to get through this. You want ammonia and nitrite below .25 ppm, as close to zero as possible. You have to do this through large water changes until you colonize enough bacteria to process this for you. Any level of ammonia or nitrite is WAY more stressful to the fish then a water change. Just make sure you use a water conditioner when you add new water back to the tank.

-FHM

 

[hopkigg]

to TFF!!!!

What kind of test kit are you using? I have to say the LFS is right this time, and that doing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down is the only way to get through this. You want ammonia and nitrite below .25 ppm, as close to zero as possible. You have to do this through large water changes until you colonize enough bacteria to process this for you. Any level of ammonia or nitrite is WAY more stressful to the fish then a water change. Just make sure you use a water conditioner when you add new water back to the tank.

-FHM

Even with daily water changes it takes a long time to get the amonia and nitrite down to a non toxic level. The best thing is to get some mature media from someone. If you ask on here someone in your area might be able to donate some, if not you could try asking at the lfs. It really is the best way and your tank will cycle in no time.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Even if you add mature filter media, it will still take some time to get the ammonia and nitrite down. So, you can go out and get some mature filter media, but you are stilll going to have to do daily water changes until the ammonia and nitrite zeros out.

-FHM

 

[rustyspurs]

to TFF!!!!

What kind of test kit are you using? I have to say the LFS is right this time, and that doing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down is the only way to get through this. You want ammonia and nitrite below .25 ppm, as close to zero as possible. You have to do this through large water changes until you colonize enough bacteria to process this for you. Any level of ammonia or nitrite is WAY more stressful to the fish then a water change. Just make sure you use a water conditioner when you add new water back to the tank.

-FHM

Even with daily water changes it takes a long time to get the amonia and nitrite down to a non toxic level. The best thing is to get some mature media from someone. If you ask on here someone in your area might be able to donate some, if not you could try asking at the lfs. It really is the best way and your tank will cycle in no time.

thanks for quick reply, i actually did start the tank off with few oraments and the sponge from my old filter. i dont mind doing the water changes, it just didnt seem to be making any difference. is 20% water changes enough and also is once a day enough. the tanks been running a week now. im relying on the lfs for testing as it would cost me 30 pound to buy all the relevant tests.

 

[fatheadminnow]

If 20% is not bringing the ammonia and/or nitrite levels down near 0 ppm, lower than .25 ppm, then the 20% water change is not enough. Try doing near 50% daily water changes.

-FHM

 

[rustyspurs]

If 20% is not bringing the ammonia and/or nitrite levels down near 0 ppm, lower than .25 ppm, then the 20% water change is not enough. Try doing near 50% daily water changes.

-FHM

ok will do, will this stop the tank cycling?
i think ive worked out how to post picture links, so hear goes, if ive made any howlers with the tank dont be afraid to point them out. thanks again for taking the time to help
http/i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af232/...rs/SDC10857.jpg

 

[Curiosity101]

I reckon that considering how bad the ammonia is... 2nd worst on chart? If that's an API kit they're using then that means ammonia is 4ppm...

So....

Today I would recommend 4 x 50% water changes. Do them perhaps once an hour, or once every other hour.

Then you can switch to daily changes tomorrow.

Order or buy a test kit straight away! Your fishes lives depend on you knowing what toxins are in their water. Getting your own kit is the best way to do this. API Master test kit is the one I would recommend. It's around £18 on ebay and lasts over a year.

Re-home some fish. That's too many to be doing a cycle with. Neons will be the first to die in a cycling tank 9and the angel will eat them once it's fully grown) so those are a definite re-homing candidate. And then I would also re-home the sharks (as they will outgrow the tank anyways).

If it were me I'd just re-home all of the fish and do a fishless cycle, but if you aren't willing/wanting to do that then please follow the above re-homing advice. It'll make things easier on both you and the fish in the long run.

Finally, look for someone who can donate some mature media to you. It'll speed cycling up considerably.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Nice tank!

No, it will not stall the cycle at all.

The bacteria that process ammonia and nitrite colonize in the filter to do so, not in the water column. So, by taking water out, you are not removing any of the beneficial bacteria.

-FHM

 

[Curiosity101]

And no reducing ammonia to a level that tests as 0 - 0.25 wont stop the cycling. But it will keep the fish safe. Whilst ever fish are creating waste faster than bacteria cycle it there will be free ammonia in the water. This free additional ammonia is what will allow the bacteria to reproduce + grow in number.

 

[fatheadminnow]

I reckon that considering how bad the ammonia is... 2nd worst on chart? If that's an API kit they're using then that means ammonia is 4ppm...

So....

Today I would recommend 4 x 50% water changes. Do them perhaps once an hour, or once every other hour.

Then you can switch to daily changes tomorrow.

Order or buy a test kit straight away! Your fishes lives depend on you knowing what toxins are in their water. Getting your own kit is the best way to do this. API Master test kit is the one I would recommend. It's around £18 on ebay and lasts over a year.

Re-home some fish. That's too many to be doing a cycle with. Neons will be the first to die in a cycling tank 9and the angel will eat them once it's fully grown) so those are a definite re-homing candidate. And then I would also re-home the sharks (as they will outgrow the tank anyways).

If it were me I'd just re-home all of the fish and do a fishless cycle, but if you aren't willing/wanting to do that then please follow the above re-homing advice. It'll make things easier on both you and the fish in the long run.

Finally, look for someone who can donate some mature media to you. It'll speed cycling up considerably.

Yeah, he has mature filter media in the filter from his last tank.

-FHM

 

[Curiosity101]

I saw. But the OP didn't say how long the sponge was without an ammonia source...I presumed the worst (that it had been just processing water for at least a few days), and therefore didn't have any bacteria.

 

[fatheadminnow]

I saw. But the OP didn't say how long the sponge was without an ammonia source...I presumed the worst (that it had been just processing water for at least a few days), and therefore didn't have any bacteria.

Yeah, that is true. It would take about 1-2 week for the bacteria population to be completely killed off if the sponge was just running in water without ammonia. That is probably the soonest time, according to 3-10% kill rate every 24 hours without an ammonia source. Hopefully the sponge did not dry out between filters?!

-FHM

 

[Curiosity101]

I just gave the 'worst case scenario' advice. Better safe than sorry. And as the OP doesn't have a test kit...

Plus I'm sure the die back rate is higher than that...I'm pretty sure you'd be looking at more like a week max for all the bacteria to have died.
Afterall if they have nothing to metabolise then they will die...they have the nutrients from other bacteria dying...but I find it hard to believe they'd last more than a week.

Where are you referencing those times from? (Not saying you're wrong, i'd just like to see for myself)

 

[rustyspurs]

I saw. But the OP didn't say how long the sponge was without an ammonia source...I presumed the worst (that it had been just processing water for at least a few days), and therefore didn't have any bacteria.

Yeah, that is true. It would take about 1-2 week for the bacteria population to be completely killed off if the sponge was just running in water without ammonia. That is probably the soonest time, according to 3-10% kill rate every 24 hours without an ammonia source. Hopefully the sponge did not dry out between filters?!

-FHM

hi again guys, the sponge i took from the old filter was actually a spare one so i was able to take it straight from one to the other, which is just as well judging by your previous posts. so water changin is the order of the day