Signal Crayfish

Hi Oohfeeshy,

In crayfish populations it is the larger specimens that are more likely to migrate, rather than the smaller, as the smaller have less of an 'adventure sense' as the larger. This may be due to larger crays drying out more slowly/having better physical protection etc.

And yes it is beneficial to remove ANY signls from water ways if you able to correctly identify, and then treat them in such a manner that will not spread them/their fungus.

The only real point of dispute here (not with you is the returning of crayfish).

Thanks :>
 
Boboboy....

"interestingly nether of the two links say a word about reintroducing Crayfish after catching"

I did not say they did, these are meant to illucidate you as to the consequences of crsyfish introduction, spread and control.

LOL the law is quite clear, it does not need to be interpreted, it is illegal to release any non-native species into british water ways. Simple, just contact DEFRA and ask them that, there you have all your answers, there are no exceptions.

"So surely we should all go out and trap as many signal crayfish as possible to
eliminate them." - Yes very very true, i have not disputed this, provided you can actually identify signals.

"Trapping is good at
catching large crayfish, it is not very good at catching small crayfish." ---quite quite true

"In some cases
the number of crayfish has increased following trapping, as the small ones have been
left behind to breed."-- this however is unproven. What i suspect it refers to, is the continued increase of the population after traping instar 5-6, rather than its decline. This is not disputed. This does not however, as you seem to think, infer that the population has got 'even bigger' as a result of removal of matures.

"Trapping cannot be used to eliminate a signal crayfish
population." This is very true.




"one of quite a few saying much the same thing. add this to the haul counts of experienced trappers and it makes compelling evidence, perhaps not good enough for you. but who cares?" -- like I said, I think you have misinterpreted it.

"as i have said use smaller traps" --- I never said this was a bad idea, I think it is a very good idea.

"avoid having to return the big ones by not catching them" -- once again you are much better off to rmove these too.


Let me appeal to your sense of reason here ok? to avoid misinforming someone. You have no concrete/proven/knowledgable way of knowing that your opinion in this matter is correct. Therefore should you really be disputing the topic? Or rather, put your questions to the experts, and see if your opinion on signals actually holds any weight.
 
Nurglespuss: how many times does a cray need to shed/long it needs to live before it can breed?
How many eggs do they produce?
How many would a smaller one of a year of so produce?
What is the average increase per year of eggs produced by a female?
How many eggs will hatch?
How many babies will then live to cause damage to the ecosystem (ie, when they are at, say, 3cm long)?
What is a fairly average growth rate?
How many Crayfish (as a %) are removed by predation and other factors?
How long would they usually live for?
How many young Crays would an Adult consume?

Please be as accurate as possible, 4000+ wont do. Something like 4200 would.
I am trying to produce a formular which will prove who ever is right.
 
Interesting stuff, I think Im going to get a trap off ebay now and have a go myself.
Whats their average size as adults or sub-adults?
 
Therefore should you really be disputing the topic? Or rather, put your questions to the experts, and see if your opinion on signals actually holds any weight.

it does thats why i am a propenent of this. i contact regulally trappers and falmers, their experience is the basis for these comments. as i say i have contacted DEFRA and i stand by the comments. disrupting a thread? humm whatever happend to hated debate, or does what you say transend the norm for forum post?

as i said leave or put back the big ones.
 
Hi there, i have population mapping/creation utility at home I can recommend to you (after I finish work).

how many times does a cray need to shed/long it needs to live before it can breed? - This suprisingly is slightly variable, but is generally accepted to be 3rd instar at the very earliest.

How many eggs do they produce? - This is also variable, and depends on the size/instar of the crayfish. But it probably wavers between a few hundred to 5700/6000+

How many would a smaller one of a year of so produce? A year or so, in warm conditions (as we have experienced over the past few years) would probably be instar 3 at the most - so call it 300.

What is the average increase per year of eggs produced by a female? -- hmmmm, well a large female would probably be on the 5-6000 mark. I don't think there is any accurate data for this.

How many eggs will hatch? -- in ideal conditions (alkaline, warm water - probably all of them), however here the fungus can play a role, and signals do lose a random percentage to fungal infection. the female carries the berried eggs until they are ripe/sometimes beyond. Most often late stage eggs are shed into the milder currents. So a high percentage - 60-70%.


How many babies will then live to cause damage to the ecosystem (ie, when they are at, say, 3cm long)?

Predation of signals is very very low in britain, predators of the white claw can predate upon signals to about the 3rd instar, but after that point, predation is human/signal/mink etc. so once again a high percentage ~70%

What is a fairly average growth rate?

Full size in 2.5-3 years.

How many Crayfish (as a %) are removed by predation and other factors? - this is unknowable, and is a variable factor of population models. This is one factor which muct be manipulated in order to create such a model. Crayfish population growth is generally exponential. Predation of the different age ranges would differ. I can't (and I don't think anyone else can) accurately provide this info.

How long would they usually live for?

approximately 6 years at most.

How many young Crays would an Adult consume?

Not that many, other prey is much easier/less well defended. Signals are primarily scavengers, and do not like to risk claws/appendages/antennae to difficult prey. Most large crays in dense populatyions will have only 1 or no claws left due to territorial combat with other crays, and are therefore innefective predators. fish, insects etc. are much easier prey.

Please be as accurate as possible, 4000+ wont do. Something like 4200 would.

I have been as accurate as I can. The population growth type of crayfish is not 'scramble' type but build and spread. I.e. dense population centre, that will eventually spread creating other dense populations (e.g. along a river) which then become dense and create the same. High levels of crayfish urea in the water may be inducer to migration/exploration by larger crays.

Hope that helps. It is best to download a population model if possible, and program, which has adjustable levels. Also remeber any model made will not account for males produced, and will only consider females and their egg production/survival.

Good luck! I shall be eager for your creation.

I am trying to produce a formular which will prove who ever is right.
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Hiya bobo I think you misread my reply :p I said disputing not disrupting :>

As I said I think you have misinterpreted, partly because there is no reason for crayfish populations to increase at an accelerated rate by removing members, that logically cannot happen, even with the effects of canibalism...

And the previous poster who asked how big they get? 8 inches or so (sometimes a little bigger).

And once again, do not replace larger ones, take them too, replace them and you will be reducing the effect you had while removing them and of course breaking the law.

BTW this is the reason why trappers to not use smaller seived nets, because then they would have to dispose of the younger specimens, which would cost them revenue.
 
Thanks very much for the info. Il just be using my own mathematical knowledge to do this, no need for any programs lol.

Just one more quick question, how many instars does a Cray go through?
 
Hi there :> crayfish instars can vary in time length, but are based on size constraints. Basically the crayfish goes from egg - growth - shell development, until the integument is too constrictive. This is then pushed to the max with water ingestion, and the exoskeleton shed.

Decent invertebrate zoology books are good sources of info :>
 

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