should goldfish be given away at fairs

[OohFeeshy]

Well, just because you actually looked after your fish properly, doesn't mean everyone does. Very few people do, they think 'oh, a cheap pet needs a cheap home'- a properly sized tank isn't a cheap home.

 

[bribones]

they think 'oh, a cheap pet needs a cheap home'

great a mind reader

its more the parents fault than the kids

id like to know how you reached that conclusion ?

if thats the case i blame the kids

"mam can i have a fish dad can i have a fish mam can i have a fish "etc etc

bottom line the buck stops with the fish supplier they give no advice or bad advice

 

[pica_nuttalli]

they think 'oh, a cheap pet needs a cheap home'

great a mind reader

its more the parents fault than the kids

id like to know how you reached that conclusion ?

if thats the case i blame the kids

"mam can i have a fish dad can i have a fish mam can i have a fish "etc etc

bottom line the buck stops with the fish supplier they give no advice or bad advice

[snapback]854606[/snapback]​

by this same logic: the auto-maker is responsible for reckless driving, the gun-maker is responsible for the kid shooting himself in the foot, and the contracter is responsible if you slip and fall down the stairs. i'm not condemning these interpretations; i just wanted to mention them to put this in perspective. who is ultimately responsible for a person's behavior? the person or the enabler?

and a lot of people DO think cheap pet=cheap home. why do you think they can sell so many bowls? there was a thread (see:rant) just the other day about a mother saying almost exactly those words while buying a single fish bowl for two goldfish. you are correct in that is the store's responsibility to stop selling bowls and explain how to properly stock goldfish. but at the same time, it is the responsibility of the owner to know the pets needs. how did you learn that goldfish need to live in a pond? how did jackobean? by research and investigation.

what percentage of people attending fairs will definitely be able to make the time to research their fish? its unfair to claim that everyone can access the internet or purchase fish-keeping books/magazines. and have you gone to look at the "fish section" of your local library? my university has both fishery and ichthyology departments. we actually have one of the nicer/larger libraries in the country. there were only about 30 books on fishkeeping there, most of them completely out of date. we're talking "new exotic species the guppy" out of date. and the local bookstore isn't much better. a couple dozen books: a third on saltwater, a sixth on cichlids, a sixth on bettas, and the rest entitled "all you ever need to know about fish in 90 pages or less." really, you have to put out effort to learn about fish unless you have the internet.

and saying "well, they can just put it in a pond" not only assumes that they have access to a pond, but that they have access to a pond of suitable size. we've all seen them, ponds that are maybe 4x4x1 that won't happily support many goldies. bad overstocking can cause stunting too. frankly, i think its presumptuous to claim that everyone who can win a goldfish has access to any pond beyond a natural body of water. i live in a warm temperate zone with high humidity and plenty of rural/suburban areas. i know of maybe three people with ponds unconnected to the natural waterways, but tons of people who have at some point won "free" goldfish. as a matter of fact, all the people i've ever known to win goldfish have just attempted to keep them in little glass bowls on the kitchen table, where they've all died after a couple of weeks.

 

[bribones]

how did you learn that goldfish need to live in a pond

through many years of experience

but at the same time, it is the responsibility of the owner to know the pets needs

as ive already stated theres no better way to learn than hands on ,a book will give you the basics but not as much as you can learn from actualy keeping the fish

you can look at the posts in this forum and see how many people did research ,very few and even those who did still have problems,you can only learn by doing

if your theory holds true ill let my daughter read a book on how to ride a motorcycle once shes read it ill buy her one ,she`l be a dab hand ..i think not

i can honestly say ive never read a book about fish keeping bar ailments ,i made mistakes and learnt by them as will everyone

this has gone totaly off topic lol but never mind ,i like a good debate

 

[jarcher1390]

its only fair if the person know how to look after them other wise the fish will have a hard life

 

[GSD]

all the people who support it must never have seen it other wise they might think diffrently when they see the conditions these fish are kept in
either that or they just dont care and are so selfish they would let the fish die to teach their children how to be responsible

 

[alabaster]

Well said. Just because a child is given the responsibility of caring for a goldfish doesnt assure that s/he will fulfill that responsibility adequately. The goldfish are not regarded as living animals but as objects that are cheaper for the fair to give out than many plastic alternatives.

 

[black angel]

Ive just heard from *somewhere else* that the government backed down from going through with that bill and it is still legal to sell goldies at fairs.

 

[Tcian]

Can't say yes or no. Not sure where I got the attitude from but when I was a kid there were only two possibilities for goldfish. Either feeder fish or pond fish. Back then we did not have the large tanks and good filtration nor the understanding of biological filtration for the amonia cycle that we have now. Come to think of it, there wasn't much in the way of pond supplies, all DIY with trial and error. Nowadays we can keep goldies quite well in large aquariums but as with anything else, unless there is an interest in the learning curve that goes along with keeping goldfish, it usually turns out badly. The interest in learning about any hobby is good for both children as well as adults, can't say what the goldfish think about it.

 

[KeddyPie]

I'm not going to comment on anyone elses post, because I don't want to have to defend myself today I have an icky headache and can't find my glasses.

I voted a firm "No". I am not looking at this from any poist of view EXCEPT the conditions I've seen them kept in at my local fairs. I'm not looking at what might end up to them if they find a good home. I'm not looking at the 'good' fairs out there. Just the extent of horror I've seen at my local school fair is enough for me to say it should NEVER be done. Yes, sometimes it may be ok... Sometimes someone might end up with a pet they are willing to take good care of. But being the human-hating girl I am, I'm thinking about the fish here - In all of the fairs I have personally been to, I am sure that at least half of the fish there are going to die, and probably within days. If 50% of the fish are going to die, I don't think it is worth it, even if they other 50% were going to great homes. Simple as that.

Our fair normally gets a cooler full of ice water, and cramps it full with small to medium goldfish. The cold water is to keep them from being too active, so they can stock it more and not have to feed them. This is also the method my local pet chain uses for feeder fish - With cold water, they only need to be fed one a week, because they are so unactive. They then produce less waste, so the tank can be more stocked. I think this is absolutly cruel.

They are put into little tiny betta bowls, the size that most places use to sell them... by pairs, normally. You throw ping-pong balls, and if one makes it into the cup, you get the contens of that cup, dumped into snack-sized ziplock.

At the end fo the fair, the ground is always littered with dead and dried fish carcases. Normally, there are a good 20-30 fish in the dunking tank by the end. I used to stand by the dunking tank at the end when they were draining it and collect the live fish, and take them home so they were not laying out on the hot pavement dying. I stopped doing this when I was 10 or 11, because I realized it was pointless. They all died within hours.

By the end, the cooler is normally still a quarter full. At this point, they start handing out as many fish as they can to whoever wants them. I'm guessing a HUGE majority of these go out as feeders for someones snake or frog or fish or whatever. My jackass neighbor used to take 20 or 30 of them, and let them go in one of his friends pools as a practicle joke.

Our local fair is horrible, and I gave up trying to stop it. I've yet to make a difference. For all the pain and suffering the fish here have to go through, I think giving out fish as prizes should be banned. It's keeping a thousand fish at my local fair from dying a miserable death. Personally, I'd think they'd rather die by being eaten, or from disease in the feeder tank. It has got to be better that drying in a tiny puddle on black pavement on a 90 degree day.

After the fair, you can normally go to my local creek and see the goldfish happily swimming. Those are probably the luckiest fish at the fair. The 75-80 degree slow moving waters, lots of bugs to eat, and so much room... I bet they are happy until they get picked off by a cat 2 days later. It's probably a thousand times better than that pavement. I know I'd rather die feeling free, even if it is in a local creek.

I have yet to see one single fish from the local fair end in a better fate than being dropped in the creek - Which would be finding a good home. Even I could not provide that, as much as I tried every year for the time they were alive.