Setup So Far

[waterdrop]

Hi Zola, I assume those are the results for the tank water? If so then please also post for your source (tap usually) water (until we see those we'll assume you don't have any traces of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in your tap water.

Your results look about as expected for the fish being in a short time. The first traces will be ammonia and there they are. You are due for your first water change (I'd do 50 to 75%, partly since it's the first.) You are at the top of the range you want to allow and it's time to take it down closer to zero ppm so that it can begin to climb back up to 0.25ppm again. That's the narrow range you'll be trying to keep it in.

Now that you've posted your first tank test results let me say that you can reduce your pH testing to once every other day and your nitrate testing to say once a week for now. This will reduce the burden of testing to just being ammonia and nitrite mostly... and in fact if you keep getting zero nitrite the next two days then I'd reduce that to every other day for the next week and a half, then increase nitrite tests to once a day, then twice a day. But the ammonia test alone will need to be happening twice a day from now on, morning and evening or whatever roughly 12-hour apart test times you can do.

Do you understand how to perform gravel (or sand) siphoning? If not the members can help. Although I would not miss a water change because of not having a gravel-cleaning-siphon, I'd always be using it if I had one. Some of the heavier organics and other chemicals we want out of the tank tend to hang with the gravel somewhat, so it is always good for all water removals to be taking out from the gravel as much as we can.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[zola]

Hi Zola, I assume those are the results for the tank water? If so then please also post for your source (tap usually) water (until we see those we'll assume you don't have any traces of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in your tap water.

Your results look about as expected for the fish being in a short time. The first traces will be ammonia and there they are. You are due for your first water change (I'd do 50 to 75%, partly since it's the first.) You are at the top of the range you want to allow and it's time to take it down closer to zero ppm so that it can begin to climb back up to 0.25ppm again. That's the narrow range you'll be trying to keep it in.

Now that you've posted your first tank test results let me say that you can reduce your pH testing to once every other day and your nitrate testing to say once a week for now. This will reduce the burden of testing to just being ammonia and nitrite mostly... and in fact if you keep getting zero nitrite the next two days then I'd reduce that to every other day for the next week and a half, then increase nitrite tests to once a day, then twice a day. But the ammonia test alone will need to be happening twice a day from now on, morning and evening or whatever roughly 12-hour apart test times you can do.

Do you understand how to perform gravel (or sand) siphoning? If not the members can help. Although I would not miss a water change because of not having a gravel-cleaning-siphon, I'd always be using it if I had one. Some of the heavier organics and other chemicals we want out of the tank tend to hang with the gravel somewhat, so it is always good for all water removals to be taking out from the gravel as much as we can.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for your reply, waterdrop.

Yes indeed these water statistics are from tank water and measured with the kit.

So, just to clarify - even when the tank is fully healthy and set up etc - the highest I ever want to see ammonia go is 0.25ppm?

What gravel kit would you recommend? Should I gravel clean once a week?

 

[waterdrop]

Ahh, no, sorry zola, I've made too many assumptions, usually when a beginner launches into their back and forth with us here in the threads they've already studied the startup articles in the Beginners Resource Center (there are articles there by Miss Wiggle, Alien Anna and other that cover baseline startup orientation.) Not to worry though, we'll talk about it here and you can also read those.

First, no, the 0.25ppm max limit I was talking about refers to maximum ammonia concentration during the Fish-In Cycling period, which is usually the month or two it takes to grow our two species of bacteria in the filter, thus turning it into a working filter. You have this difficult task of trying to "contain" the ammonia being given off by your fish to being -between- zero ppm and 0.25ppm (as measured by your new ammonia test within the master kit) for the next month or more because you don't yet have any "A-Bacs" (Nitrosomonas spp. bacteria) in your filter.

Later, when the filter has been "cycled" and the tank is running normally, the filter should always read zero ppm ammonia (ie. the ammonia level is so low the test can't detect it and the fish are not swimming around in a poisonous concentration of it, as was now being approached when you posted last night.)

The "gravel-clean-water-change" is perhaps the most core maintenance skill all freshwater beginners should learn. Instead of laboriously bailing cups of water out of the tank, one uses a siphon. This of course could be a simple hose to which one applies a simple suction to get the water going up over the edge of the tank and then down to a large catch-bucket on the floor below the tank. But instead, a cylinder of wider diameter is attached at one end, the purpose of which is to plunge deep in to the gravel to clean it. The gravel is churned up by the vacuum of moving water within the siphon and debris and heavier molecules move out of the tank with the water, whereas the heavier gravel pieces fall back down once you move the cylinder on to a different patch of gravel. The wider cylinder also facilitates getting the siphon action started in that you can fill with tank water and then lift it higher than the tank side wall until the water starts to drain and then quickly (but gently so you don't splash your room) plunge it below the surface water of the tank so that it will continue to move water from the tank to the catchbucket. There are hundreds of videos showing this on youtube if you search on "gravel clean aquarium." (some worse than others)

Gravel-clean-water-changing is done weekly in a normal beginner community freshwater tank and as we've talked about, often needs to be done daily or twice daily during a Fish-In cycling situation. Gravel-clean-water-changes are the most powerful tool to both -change- the chemistry of the tank when it has moved to far from that of the tap water and also to -maintain- the water chemistry so that it stays closer to the tap (source) water. Fresh source water is normally the all-purpose safety mechanism the aquarist has on hand to resolve water-chemistry problems.

The cylinder and siphon tube must of course match the size of tank and provide enough extra hose so that the end in the catch-bucket is not jumping about. Tiny ones and monster ones are sold but it is pretty easy to look at them, picture yourself holding the thing in your tank and choose one that is a good size. Some of them have a squeeze bulb to help start the siphon but skill of "lift and start" is not hard and keeps the equipment simpler.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. regardless of whether you have a gravel siphon yet, I hope you've already performed a water change (with conditioner and temp-matching) since you were hitting the limit last night, right?

 

[menacer]

Hello again,

We bought our tank in pets at home, but I visited a dedicated tropical fish shop after work today for more info. I explaned the current set up and talked to him for about half an hour.

The old hand who owns the place said that the water would by now be ok to add 4 small hardy fish, he recommended two platys and two zebras, he took a few big scoops of water from their tanks and put them all in a large bag.

I asked about water level kits and such, but he said to come back in 3 weeks for this and by then I could maybe introduce a few more smaller fish.

They have been open for over 20 years so I trust what he said.

I came out with an algae cleaner, some balanced food, a new hiding toy, and a small plant.

Here are the new fish

Tut Tut!

 

[zola]

Ahh, no, sorry zola, I've made too many assumptions, usually when a beginner launches into their back and forth with us here in the threads they've already studied the startup articles in the Beginners Resource Center (there are articles there by Miss Wiggle, Alien Anna and other that cover baseline startup orientation.) Not to worry though, we'll talk about it here and you can also read those.

First, no, the 0.25ppm max limit I was talking about refers to maximum ammonia concentration during the Fish-In Cycling period, which is usually the month or two it takes to grow our two species of bacteria in the filter, thus turning it into a working filter. You have this difficult task of trying to "contain" the ammonia being given off by your fish to being -between- zero ppm and 0.25ppm (as measured by your new ammonia test within the master kit) for the next month or more because you don't yet have any "A-Bacs" (Nitrosomonas spp. bacteria) in your filter.

Later, when the filter has been "cycled" and the tank is running normally, the filter should always read zero ppm ammonia (ie. the ammonia level is so low the test can't detect it and the fish are not swimming around in a poisonous concentration of it, as was now being approached when you posted last night.)

The "gravel-clean-water-change" is perhaps the most core maintenance skill all freshwater beginners should learn. Instead of laboriously bailing cups of water out of the tank, one uses a siphon. This of course could be a simple hose to which one applies a simple suction to get the water going up over the edge of the tank and then down to a large catch-bucket on the floor below the tank. But instead, a cylinder of wider diameter is attached at one end, the purpose of which is to plunge deep in to the gravel to clean it. The gravel is churned up by the vacuum of moving water within the siphon and debris and heavier molecules move out of the tank with the water, whereas the heavier gravel pieces fall back down once you move the cylinder on to a different patch of gravel. The wider cylinder also facilitates getting the siphon action started in that you can fill with tank water and then lift it higher than the tank side wall until the water starts to drain and then quickly (but gently so you don't splash your room) plunge it below the surface water of the tank so that it will continue to move water from the tank to the catchbucket. There are hundreds of videos showing this on youtube if you search on "gravel clean aquarium." (some worse than others)

Gravel-clean-water-changing is done weekly in a normal beginner community freshwater tank and as we've talked about, often needs to be done daily or twice daily during a Fish-In cycling situation. Gravel-clean-water-changes are the most powerful tool to both -change- the chemistry of the tank when it has moved to far from that of the tap water and also to -maintain- the water chemistry so that it stays closer to the tap (source) water. Fresh source water is normally the all-purpose safety mechanism the aquarist has on hand to resolve water-chemistry problems.

The cylinder and siphon tube must of course match the size of tank and provide enough extra hose so that the end in the catch-bucket is not jumping about. Tiny ones and monster ones are sold but it is pretty easy to look at them, picture yourself holding the thing in your tank and choose one that is a good size. Some of them have a squeeze bulb to help start the siphon but skill of "lift and start" is not hard and keeps the equipment simpler.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. regardless of whether you have a gravel siphon yet, I hope you've already performed a water change (with conditioner and temp-matching) since you were hitting the limit last night, right?

Thanks!

Yes water changed and all. Going to do a new reading later.

The fish keeper in our work is coming in tomorrow and he always siphons, I will ask him if I can get a set of what he has.

At the moment I am doing changes with a big jug I bought, hugely impractical as it drips a lot and it takes maybe 5 or 6 jugfuls to get half way.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Remember to ask him for some of the 'Mature Media' out of the filter.

Depending on what you want to do with your current filter will depend on how much you ask for... but if it was me i would get enough to fill that small grey one you have that came with your set-up.. then if you choose to upgrade to a better filter, move it ALL across.

Regards,
Terry.

 

[zola]

Remember to ask him for some of the 'Mature Media' out of the filter.

Depending on what you want to do with your current filter will depend on how much you ask for... but if it was me i would get enough to fill that small grey one you have that came with your set-up.. then if you choose to upgrade to a better filter, move it ALL across.

Regards,
Terry.

Hi dude!

We ordered that aquaball 60 filter this evening! So it should be with us in a few days.

Can I put the mature media into a bottle and keep alive for a full working day? When I get home do I put it in the water and let the filter get it? Then when the new filter comes can I rinse the old filter sponge in the tank water and fit the new filter?


did a 70% water change again tonight, no ammonia again. Will test for nitrite tomorrow.

 

[zola]

So one of my zebra danios is continually chasing the smaller one around the tank and gets very close. He doesn't go near the platys though.

Should this be taken as playful or threatening?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

What was the outcome of asking that bloke in work that comes to maintain that tank?

 

[zola]

I didn't get a chance to, there was too many people around and he seemed in a hurry.

Not sure what to do, do you reckon a LFS would give me some?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Hmm... i would certainly ask, all they can say is no!

With reagrds to what to do with your filter now, in all honesty i would prefer to step aside and allow the likes of KittyKatt or Waterdrop to give you some advice...just keep on top of your water tests and possible water changes.

PS- good choice with that Aquaball though, you'll be pleased you purchased it!

 

[zola]

Thanks! Doing 50% - 75% water changes daily now, keeping on top of the levels.

Hopefully the aquaball arrives today and I will get it installed tonight.

Is it ok to have it in the back corner and have the pointer shooting diagonally across to the front?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Thanks! Doing 50% - 75% water changes daily now, keeping on top of the levels.

Hopefully the aquaball arrives today and I will get it installed tonight.

Is it ok to have it in the back corner and have the pointer shooting diagonally across to the front?

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This is how i have my Aquaball in my 30L tank, if you look at the top of the filter and the outlet, you will see the 'spray bar' that i further purchased to reduce the risk of any 'stagnant' water in my tank that may not get much flow.. hope this helps
Terry.

 

[zola]

Is the spray bar quite loud? The trickling water was something which kept me awake - the tank is in my bedroom

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Is the spray bar quite loud? The trickling water was something which kept me awake - the tank is in my bedroom

It can be, but you simply move it so it flows beneath the water line..i have mine dead online with the water level, i find it allows a good flow of oxygen into the tank.