Setup So Far

zola

Fish Fanatic
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Hello, here is the tank as it is now.

Does this all look ok? The water is rippling a little on the top and the heater is at the back at 45 degree angle as advised by the girl in the pet shop.

We have had it running for a full day and letting it run on tomorrow again before thinking about fish.

tank.jpg
 
No you need to research about fishless cycling and cycle your tank, which will take a month. Any fish you add before doing this have a good chance of dying. Then you would also have to do a fish-in cycle with is a lot more expensive, takes longer, and is more work.

Also make sure you research species of fish. Your tank looks somewhat small so there will be more restrictions on what can properly be housed in it.
 
hi just wanted to say that i rushed in gettin fish in my tank knowin nothin bout cyclin it 1st, i left it a week and threw fish in there - 21 survived, 13 died needlessly, its much kinder to cycle first plus it gives u plenty of time to choose wot fish u want. Ur tank looks nice btw :)
 
It does look like a small tank - how big is it?

Lookswise, it might be nice to have a cave or somewhere for fish to hide. Also some plants would look good.

... but as has been said already, you need to cycle your tank first :good:
 
Cheers, its a basic 28 litre tank, as we are complete beginners. Going to add a plant and another wee feature before fish.

The people at the pet shop said nothing about fishless cycling, its a new concept for me, never heard of it before at all.

Does it really take a month? I have read a few guides just now, a lot of work but I can see the importance.
 
As the other members have said, a fishless cycle is very much recommended. It's really not that hard to do and saves an awful lot of hard work and heartache. All the details about cycling can be found in the beginners resource centre here; http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

You definitely need some kind of cover for the fish; even if it's only fake plants. Fish that have nowhere to hide become very nervous and will most likely spend all their time trying to hide behind your heater or filter! Pardoxically, the more hiding places you have, that more you see of the fish, as they know there's a safe spot nearby to swim to. You know there are no predators in your tank, but your fish don't :good:
 
As the other members have said, a fishless cycle is very much recommended. It's really not that hard to do and saves an awful lot of hard work and heartache. All the details about cycling can be found in the beginners resource centre here; http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

You definitely need some kind of cover for the fish; even if it's only fake plants. Fish that have nowhere to hide become very nervous and will most likely spend all their time trying to hide behind your heater or filter! Pardoxically, the more hiding places you have, that more you see of the fish, as they know there's a safe spot nearby to swim to. You know there are no predators in your tank, but your fish don't :good:


Cheers for the tips!

The second point is interesting! I will keep this in mind and add a few hiding features.

I plan to keep very small fish and not too many, dont want them crowded and unhappy!
 
Hello again,

We bought our tank in pets at home, but I visited a dedicated tropical fish shop after work today for more info. I explaned the current set up and talked to him for about half an hour.

The old hand who owns the place said that the water would by now be ok to add 4 small hardy fish, he recommended two platys and two zebras, he took a few big scoops of water from their tanks and put them all in a large bag.

I asked about water level kits and such, but he said to come back in 3 weeks for this and by then I could maybe introduce a few more smaller fish.

They have been open for over 20 years so I trust what he said.

I came out with an algae cleaner, some balanced food, a new hiding toy, and a small plant.

Here are the new fish :)

platys.jpg


zebras.jpg
 
There really is no point in coming on this forum and asking for advise and then ignoring it. Everything the shop keeper has told you is rubbish - all they are interested in is profit and selling fish and if your fish die its good business for them cos you will need to buy more.It never ceases to amaze me how bad some fish shops are. The water is NOT now ok - it takes between 4-6 weeks to cycle a tank. Cycling a tank means growing bacteria which live in your filter which will make the toxins that your fish produce harmeless - without this bacteria the water will be a toxic soup and kill your fish.

You need a water quality testing kit straight away not in 3 weeks time because now you have bought fish against the advise forum members have given you and the explanation why. You will need to test your water quality every single day with it - sometimes a few times a day to see what the toxic levels are in your tank which WILL kill your fish if you dont take steps against it by doing immediate water changes when the levels are high. without a kit you are not going to know. Do not under any curcumstances add any more fish until your tank is cycled.

You are now cycling your tank with fish in. Please read up on ths article on here now and take the steps you need to keep your fish alive and listen to members on here who have your fishes welfare at heart not the shop keepers profit!

cycling an aquarium
 
Agree with the above - remember these shops want to sell and make profit, and will say anything to do just that, whether they have been open 2 years or 20 years!

I also still think you need a little more cover in your tank, be it more plants (real or plastic, doesnt matter), or other stuff to give the fish places to hide away etc.
 
Hi Zola and Welcome to TFF!

You have stumbled on to a really serious hobbyist forum full of many people with decades of experience in many different areas of the hobby. As a newcomer the things you read here may at first seem strange. But what happens here is that you can receive advice to help you do things as if you had been in the hobby for years.

You will probably be able to detect the frustration in the posts of our members. We see sometimes dozens of new threads from beginners each month and hear the same story over and over. Your story so far reads like a classic case, so the members are concerned to see you headed for many of the potential troubles they've helped with so often.

When fish respire (bring water through their gills) they take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide, but they also directly give off ammonia(NH3). The amount of ammonia is small, but it is very steady and builds up quickly. Ammonia is a poison to fish. Excess fish food, fish waste and plant debris all break down in the tank to create more... ammonia! In nature, ammonia is carried away by thousands upon thousands of gallons of water but unfortunately in our tanks even tiny amounts of it can cause permanent gill damage and then death.

As hobbyists, we learn to grow two species of bacteria in our filters, the first of which belongs to the Nitrosomonas species and can process ammonia(NH3) into nitrite(NO2). Nitrite(NO2) is also a deadly poison to fish. Even in tiny amounts it causes suffocation, leading to permanent nerve and brain damage or death. The second species of bacteria we grow, Nitrospira, can process nitrite(NO2) into a third substance, nitrate(NO3), which is not nearly as deadly and can be removed during our weekly water changes.

The two wonderful species of bacteria that help us are very, very slow growers and until they are grown in sufficient quantities, we are left providing manual filtration to keep our fish alive and healthy, by means of frequent (usually daily) significant water changes, unless we have prepared a fully-functioning "biofilter" of live bacteria ahead of time. In recent years, the scientists that study fish have learned that fish do not initially show symptoms when they first begin receiving permanent damage from these poisons, so we've learned more about the beginnings of this process. Eventually, of course one begins to see symptoms, disease or death if the hobbyist is unable to control the poisons.

The problem for the retail pet industry is that any sort of description of this sort of information is either beyond the grasp of the newly interested parent or hobbyist or quickly drives them to reconsider their plans. So the typical pattern the shops fall in to ease the newcomer past this rough period by taking advantage of the inital lack of symptoms and by readily selling new fish for those that die. Eventually the tanks cycles and everyone involved tries to forget the fish that died.

Experienced hobbyists over time gain lots of knowledge about "biofilters" and realize that none of that startup trouble was necessary. This is what they hope to communicate to newcomers/beginners to the hobby. Regardless, now that you have fish in a non-filtered tank, you are in what we call a Fish-In Cycling Situation and we have experience helping people get through this, often with their fish alive. The baseline article for this is called Fish-In Cycling and is also in the Beginners Resource Center.

Good luck and I hope this will be the beginning of an enjoyable stay in the hobby!

~~waterdrop~~ :)
 
Thanks for the kind and informative reply, waterdrop.

I will read all the info and will do everything I can to stick to a recommended process. ,
 
OK, a couple more comments. As a beginner, one of the problems you always face is that you don't really have a feel for the timing involved and sometimes the exact procedures to follow. The small size of the tank will be working against you - the traces of poison will be sudden probably, unless your water changes happen to be on mark. Working for you however will be this same smallness in that water changes will not be so long and hard, so you'll be less inclined to cheat.

Of prime importance will be a liquid-reagent type testing kit. Most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or a few others. Paper strip tests are worse than useless, they can lead to wrong decisions. Testing during fish-in cycling of a small tank will probably need to proceed twice daily (ammonia and nitrite (pH occasionaly and nitrate(NO3) rarely but occasionaly.)) Prior to having a proper test kit, water changes will best be 50% daily, but with the kit you can make them more ideal and probably save yourself work.

The goal is to become a detective, figuring out what percentage and frequency the water changes need to be to only have ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) maximize at 0.25ppm (or 0.30 with some kits, whatever the first color is near that) before you can be home from work or school or whatever to change water again if necessary.

All water changing during fish-in cycling is better done with good technique (people with established biofilters and tanks can use less caution but when new you are trying to be gentle to both the fish and bacteria!) Conditioner (to remove chlorine/chloramines) should be dosed at 1.5x to 2x (but not more than 2x) in the return water. If the water is hosed in to the tank directly (a Python type system for instance) then the conditioner must be dosed to the full tank volume. The water should also be roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this if done back and forth a few times.) Most beginners get an idea that water changes are a potential shock to fish but if done paying attention to the above techniques the opposite is true and larger water changes are often better. All water removal should be carried out with a gravel cleaner despite not seeing any debris in the gravel. Also, there is no need to worry about there being enough ammonia to stimulate bacterial growth - the ammonia we need will be present despite our kits reading zero ppm ammonia. In a fish-in cycle, the important thing is the safety of the fish, not the ammonia stimulation of the bacteria, that will eventually take care of itself.

~~waterdrop~~
 
OK, a couple more comments. As a beginner, one of the problems you always face is that you don't really have a feel for the timing involved and sometimes the exact procedures to follow. The small size of the tank will be working against you - the traces of poison will be sudden probably, unless your water changes happen to be on mark. Working for you however will be this same smallness in that water changes will not be so long and hard, so you'll be less inclined to cheat.

Of prime importance will be a liquid-reagent type testing kit. Most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or a few others. Paper strip tests are worse than useless, they can lead to wrong decisions. Testing during fish-in cycling of a small tank will probably need to proceed twice daily (ammonia and nitrite (pH occasionaly and nitrate(NO3) rarely but occasionaly.)) Prior to having a proper test kit, water changes will best be 50% daily, but with the kit you can make them more ideal and probably save yourself work.

The goal is to become a detective, figuring out what percentage and frequency the water changes need to be to only have ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) maximize at 0.25ppm (or 0.30 with some kits, whatever the first color is near that) before you can be home from work or school or whatever to change water again if necessary.

All water changing during fish-in cycling is better done with good technique (people with established biofilters and tanks can use less caution but when new you are trying to be gentle to both the fish and bacteria!) Conditioner (to remove chlorine/chloramines) should be dosed at 1.5x to 2x (but not more than 2x) in the return water. If the water is hosed in to the tank directly (a Python type system for instance) then the conditioner must be dosed to the full tank volume. The water should also be roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this if done back and forth a few times.) Most beginners get an idea that water changes are a potential shock to fish but if done paying attention to the above techniques the opposite is true and larger water changes are often better. All water removal should be carried out with a gravel cleaner despite not seeing any debris in the gravel. Also, there is no need to worry about there being enough ammonia to stimulate bacterial growth - the ammonia we need will be present despite our kits reading zero ppm ammonia. In a fish-in cycle, the important thing is the safety of the fish, not the ammonia stimulation of the bacteria, that will eventually take care of itself.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks again for more info! :)

I have phoned the pet shop and reserved 1 API masters kit, which I will pick up in 4 hours.

The point I have highighted - is this a universal number?

And should I be doing daily water changes for a month or so with the required amount of dechlorinator stuff?
 
You seem to have done exactly what i was advised to do by my local 'chain' store last year... ignore them, never go in there again and listen to the suggestions from people on here.

You now have to do ALOT of water changes to keep your fish alive. At one point last year, i was doing 2 lots of 50% water changes just to keep my Mollies alive. It didn't work and they died a week or two later.

I also had that exact same filter you have. I found it noisy and useless. as soon as you can i suggest you upgrade, i decided on an 'Eheim Aquaball' and my small 30L tank has never looked so good! But then again, i cut my losses and chose on a complete 'fishless cycle'.

Regards,
Terry.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top