Selecting breed stock and

[Betta*b*Happy!]

A bit long but please read on... )

I am reserching information about breeding betta splendens and i have a question i would like your personal opinions on.

When selecting breeding stock. What do you personally look for? Apart from the usual right age, healthy fish. Would you choose a fish that had some aspect that made it appeal to you personally (for whatever reason) over a fish that was perfect by standered but just didn't 'do it for you'?

Do you try to breed to enhance some aspect of the fish that you personally like, or do you strive for the perfect fish as to the IBC guidelines?

Are you willing to try breeding a pair to attempt to develop a new line like no other, or do you stick to the tried and tested colour/tail combinations?

Sorry for the spanish inquisition (Sp?) just i would really like peoples personal opinions on this.

Note * i would like all opinions too so please avoid commenting on others if they do not share your views - thankyou*

 

[SRC]

You can't ask a question like this and not expect people to disagree or comment on things they don't agree with lol. Those would be the opinions you techincally asked for, but then told them not to state.

I think you should combine all of those things.

You shouldn't breed fish stock just becasue you LOVE them, if they have serious faults. There is no way to better a strain by starting with already out of whack fish..no matter how pretty they may be. Like fish with red wash or non symetrical fins. They may have perfect fins, or color, but most likely they will pass on the bad attributes to their offspring.
You should decide what direction you want to go before hand, then try to find fish that fill that criteria. Then build your "own" line from there.

As for mixing tail types, personally I don't like it myself. I'm not a big fan of the "crown moon"...I don't think it looks right. I'm not a big fan of "double crown's" either, and I really didn't liek that triple tail one at all. I personally think instead of trying to create a new tail types..breeders should work on bettering the colors those types already come in, liek yellow's and orange's.
Making the colors deeper and more vibrant, and working on getting redwash out of their fish (instead of continuing to breed fish that have traces of red wash).

 

[OohFeeshy]

For the mixing tail types, I'm planning a few spawns that should end up with a 100% CTPK outcome (after a couple of other spawns to get the parents for this). Colourwise, I like fairly symmetrical patterning and tend to look for the same patern in both parents. For instance, if one has a ble head, I'd like the other to have a blue head too.

 

[SRC]

Crown plakats are nice looking, but I also don't consider a plakat a "tail type" either, as it probably "really" should be either lol. Mostly because it's not just the fins that look different on a plakat..but also the body and attitude as well.

I think a crown plakat would be nice. Hope to see them soon Ohfeeshy.

 

[Betta*b*Happy!]

SRC - thanks for being honest and open about your views. (the last comment really 'please don't slate other peoples views - ta'! )

I'd just like to point out that I'm not implying that i agree/disagree on mixing tail types/colour types. For the purpose of this topic I'm officially sitting on the fence! lol

Oohfeeshy - I look forward to seeing the fry!

Just to add to the discussion - SRC, why is it desirable to eliminate red wash? is it to do with red being dominant and to help other colours come though? (*feels dumb for asking*)

And finally - OohFeeshy, you say in your post you are planning to develop a 100%CTPK strain. To do this you will need to obtain a parent generation. What do breeders in this situation do with the fry that don't quite cut it?

Do you cull the fry in order to save mixing the gene pool if they fall into inexperienced hands (after lfs) or do you pass them on to the LFS?

Again opinions welcome

note - even top breeders have been known to cull fry.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Well, from the first spawn all will be combtails (or should be, either that or deltas) and I'm sure you lot won't mind having them for free or low cost and postage costs. Theres also a lfs that doesn't sell bettas yet . The second spawn, should be a combo of deltas/VT's who, again, either lfs or you lot, CT's which I should be able to sell easily, PK's which are ditto and CTPK which ditto and I'm using for the next spawn. So there should be no problems there, and you are suckers for heart tuggers

 

[wuvmybetta]

Some breeders cull, some don't. From my understanding the non-cullers outweigh the cullers. And, it's also recommended that you not cull your first few spawns because you have no idea what youre looking for. A sub-par juvie may grow up to be an outstanding adult.

Basically, you need to breed for color OR finnage, you can never really get the perfect finnage and color on the same fish. It just doesn't happen too often. I've had IBC judges tell me that there is no such thing as the perfect fish.

The IBC guidelines are wonderful to go by, but they are also ever-changing. Just this month they made a new class for the plakat- who formerly only had a couple classes to call their own. Now the goal is said to be the perfectly symmetrical plakat- much like the symmetrical long finned show fish.

If someone were to enter a plakat/crowntail in show right now, they'd really have nowhere to go so I'd guess they would most likely go in a 'temporary' class. And if enough entrants come along throughout the year the IBC will adjust the classes accordingly and create a standard for the next show season.

For example- the feather fin isn't even recognized by the IBC right now.

So basically- pick a color or a finnage and go for it. The most perfect red colored fish with zero iridescence and not so perfect finnage could easily win a first place award over a less than perfect red w/perfect finnage.

 

[Jessica13]

The bettas i have bought for breeding are purely the ones that have caught my eye and that i think are pretty. As long as its not a VT i dont think theres any particular tail type that you *should* breed. I personally like HMs better than others so i've gone for those. With my pairs i've been trying to find ones that have something i like about them and try and improve that in the next line. At the moment im working on my masked melano and masked green pairs as i love the masked ones and want more!

But.. Just go for the fish you like, my opinion anyway

 

[SRC]

Nope most breeders here don't cull anything..they give them away here And YES we are suckers (for lack of a better word lmao) lol .

Ok..here is my thoughts and findings on red wash (you asked for it..

Alot of people will tell you that unless you are breeding for "show quality" bettas that it "really" doesn't matter if they have it, but really...if you plan to try and make money from breeding bettas or possibly show them down the road...you want your fish to start off being as good as they can be, right? So why breed fish with obvious faults..like red wash? lol just doesn't make good sense to me.

Ok, according to Wuv I am queen of links...so here we go) .

Redwash is that red that comes through on say, for example, a blue or white fish. It keeps them from being a true solid color. Most people who want a white fish, who bought a white fish at 3 months old on, say, AB don't want red to start showing up all of a sudden 2-3 months after they got it and paid $30 for it.

That can happen if you use redwashed parents or fry from a spawn that one of the grand-parents had red wash.

Redwash is where they will have red next to their body on the anal fin and ventrals. sometimes on other fins as well.

Redwash on Anal Fin

Redwash on Ventrals

Good article on Redwash
http/www.bcbetta.com/redwash.html

Royal Blue: The body and fins are a dark, royal blue, ending at the gill plates. The head is usually dark grey-black. This colour is very prone to red wash (where red can be seen in the fish, usually the fins.)

Opaque: This colour is the whole fish having a milky opaque colour. It comes in White only, and is very desirable in its purest form, with no red wash.
http/www.fishlore.com/Articles/BreedingBettas.htm
http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/breedi..._splendens.html
http/meltingpot.fortunecity.com/alberni/501/bettatypes.htm

Dark Solid Color Iridescent Males and Females

Blue-The blue should be as deep and rich as possible. Some fish may appear almost purple. There should be no red wash on either the body or fins. More red wash results in less desirable color.

Steel Blue-This color may range from light blue to a dark gray. A deep~r more intense gray is more desirable. There should be no red wash on either the body or fins. As red wash increases, the color faults increase.

Green-This color may range from a turquoise to a dark green with the dark green being more pure and more desirable. There should be no red wash on either the body or fins. As the red wash increases, the color faults of the fish increase.

Light Solid Color Males and Females

Yellow/Clear-Clear or cellophane fish should be uniformly clear with no other color present on the body or fins. Blood vessels may be seen on these fish due to their lack of pigmentation and this is not a fault. There will be a range of yellows seen: however, a deep, dark, and rich yellow is preferred over a more pale shade. There should be no red or iridescence on the body or fins. As the presence of these color impurities increases, the color fault increases.

Pastel-This color may be seen in a variety of forms. There are steel blue, blue , and green pastels. Whatever the color variation, there should be a smooth, uniform pattern of the pastel color on the body and fins. Blotchiness of the color is less desirable. There should be no red wash on the body or fins.

Opaque-These fish should have a smooth, uniform opaque white coloration of the body and fins. There should be no clear areas on the body or fins and a more dense opaque layer is preferred. There should be no red wash on either the body or fins and any black markings are a color fault as well.

Patterned Males and Females

Butterfly-In this class, the body and the aspect of the fins nearest the body are one color while the latter aspect of the fins are usually clear or white in color. There should be a clean, distinct separation of the two colors and no bleeding of one to the other. In addition, the pattern extending onto the fins should be uniform from fm to fm. If the fish is a two-banded butterfly, the colors should bisect the fins while a three banded butterfly should possess a trisected fin color pattern. If the body is of a non-iridescent color, then there should be no iridescence found on the fish_ If the body color is an iridescent color, then there should be no red wash found in the pattern. The white or clear portion of the fins should be pure with no flecks of coloration.

http/www.ghbbc.org/pages/shows/standard/

Oftentimes it seems that some shades of royal blue lean towards purple/violet, and therefore it should only be a small step to bring them to a true purple shade. However, introducing red into a line of royals will usually only give the breeder blues with excessive red wash, or red/blue multicolors, NO purple bettas.

http/bettysplendens.com/articles/page.asp?articleid=1973

Explaining how Black Betta's come about

Hope this helps you .

 

[GSD]

if i was going to breed(not for quite afew years yet )i would go for something diffrent,unusual but still in the show guidelines.I am a long tailed lover rather than a plakat lover and love evrey single betta on this site
http/www.bcbetta.com/stock7.html


but this
http/www.bettasplendens.de/galerie/data/...acerama0404.JPG
and this
http/www.bettatalk.com/images/Black_Splash_male_.gif

are stunning weather theyre show quality or not

 

[wuvmybetta]

Opaque: This colour is the whole fish having a milky opaque colour. It comes in White only, and is very desirable in its purest form, with no red wash.

Fun fact~ Opaque is actually a kidney disease in the fish. It's gout I believe. Also they shed their slime layer almost daily

 

[SRC]

So solid white fish are a result of a kidney malfunction? that sucks

 

[wuvmybetta]

So solid white fish are a result of a kidney malfunction? that sucks

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No, it's that crusty white layer the opaques have on them. That's the disease at work.

 

[SRC]

NO wonder that one I had looked kinda gross around his head then.

Might explain why he always looked grumpy too.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Yeah, it usually spreads over their eyes and they wind up blind on top of everythng else.

He says "So my kidneys are bad and now I'm blind. Wonderful!! hope I'm within the standard"