seeing a trend I don’t like… probably shipping related…

Magnum Man48 163

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I’m going to have to change my routine for unpacking fish… I’m an old guy, who has a procedure that has always worked for me… I always opened the bag, added a matching amount of water to the bag, from my aquarium, let the fish acclimate for several minutes, then pour through a net, over my utility sink, and plop the fish into the tank…

but lately the trend has been single packed fish, in tiny bags, much too small to blend water in, I’m going to have to dump them into an intermediate container, to blend the waters, also Dan’s has been heat sealing the bags for quite a while, which compounds the problem of the tiny bags…

it’s great to get single packed fish, and now several online suppliers have gone that route, but when the bags get to be the size of a golf ball, it just makes things harder to work with…

gone are the days of big boxes of fish… now they are packing 20 fish into a shoe box… they all survived the heat and a delay in shipping, so it seems to be working… but I’m old enough to remember huge bags of water being shipped
 
I’m going to have to change my routine for unpacking fish… I’m an old guy, who has a procedure that has always worked for me… I always opened the bag, added a matching amount of water to the bag, from my aquarium, let the fish acclimate for several minutes, then pour through a net, over my utility sink, and plop the fish into the tank…

but lately the trend has been single packed fish, in tiny bags, much too small to blend water in, I’m going to have to dump them into an intermediate container, to blend the waters, also Dan’s has been heat sealing the bags for quite a while, which compounds the problem of the tiny bags…

it’s great to get single packed fish, and now several online suppliers have gone that route, but when the bags get to be the size of a golf ball, it just makes things harder to work with…

gone are the days of big boxes of fish… now they are packing 20 fish into a shoe box… they all survived the heat and a delay in shipping, so it seems to be working… but I’m old enough to remember huge bags of water being shipped

With shipping rates exploding in our current time, the result is they are saving us some of the high costs!
 
I would be delighted at this. Single packing makes a huge difference. When cheap fish come from exporters, they're in large bags. Any expensive fish have been single packed for a very long time. That, I believe, says something about the effectiveness of the method.

They also must be assuming that people are draining through a net and dropping the fish in. So with that technique, small bags are no worry, and a major money saver that can also save fish.
 
I know this was brought up in another thread; shipped fish should be heat acclimated and then "plopped and dropped" into the tank. Dripp or other water acclimation is discouraged as opening the bag makes trapped ammonia instantly toxic to fish.

I would not buy fish if they were heat sealed; I have only had fish in bags, double bagged and sealed with rubber bands.
 
I really don't like it at all and would never buy fish that way.

I see your point clearly, and question this as well. But every fish you buy in a shop has traveled in like conditions, unless they're from a local breeder.

I've bought fish in heat sealed breather bags. I would love to see a photo of how the single packed fish are shipped. I'd like to see the bags and the air water ratio.
 
I’m going to have to change my routine for unpacking fish… I’m an old guy, who has a procedure that has always worked for me… I always opened the bag, added a matching amount of water to the bag, from my aquarium, let the fish acclimate for several minutes, then pour through a net, over my utility sink, and plop the fish into the tank…

but lately the trend has been single packed fish, in tiny bags, much too small to blend water in, I’m going to have to dump them into an intermediate container, to blend the waters, also Dan’s has been heat sealing the bags for quite a while, which compounds the problem of the tiny bags…

it’s great to get single packed fish, and now several online suppliers have gone that route, but when the bags get to be the size of a golf ball, it just makes things harder to work with…

gone are the days of big boxes of fish… now they are packing 20 fish into a shoe box… they all survived the heat and a delay in shipping, so it seems to be working… but I’m old enough to remember huge bags of water being shipped
There has been cut backs from some which I also do not like , couple weeks back was at a chain pet store which is actually very good was buying Kuhli loaches and they used to double bag the fish just incase a bag leaked but now they no longer do it so it was my last buy , granted I emailed the corporation .
 
I once received a bag which was supposed to contain 100 zebra plecos. It was only 99. Overall, there was one fish DOA and I lost 3 more inside an hour as I was sorting and distributing them into several tanks. The rest all were fine and no further deaths occurred.

When I first began breeding and selling zebras the demand was far beyond my ability to supply it. So, as soon as offspring were both 1.5 inches TL and at least six months old, they went out. I also had a minimum order of 5 and early on a maximum of 8 which was soon raised to 10. I bagged all fish in an order individually. Back then those fish sold for $150 (and up) each. So the one/bag was good for both the buyer and for me. I sold mine at $150 and if an order was for 10 or more I would add an extra fish.

But this was back in 2007 and 08. Eventually I maxed the number I would sell at 20 fish. I also stopped packing them one/bag. I am a good shipper and most of the DOAs I had were due to shipper delays not to the health of the fish or the quality of packing. That doesn't matter to a buyer who cares only that the fish arrive alive and if, they don't, a buyer does not care who is at fault. Since shipping companies will not guarantee live arrival, losses always were up to me to replace or refund at the buyers discretion.

I was fortunate in having a pretty prolific group of breeders. Eventually, I could handle the few losses that did happen as I had recouped my investment in the original fish. So, it was not a huge burden to replace or refund. But it still meant potential money not I did not get. Selling the fish that breed in my tanks has paid all of my hobby costs over the years.

I did have a bad period involving toxic bags killing fish. But once I replaced my bag supplier this has never happened again. I was far from the only shipper having that problem back then.

As for the best way to pack fish, different folks have different methods. I have never used a breather bag. I always double bag and invert the outer bag so the bag tops are at opposite ends. I used to add a bit of dechlor with an ammonia detoxifier in it. But then I learned dechlor is a reducing agents so it uses up oxygen. This is less important in a tank than it is in a bag with a only a small amount of water.

However, Rachel O'Leary then taught me to use a piece of Poly Filter in each bag. This sucks up bad stuff, especially ammonia and organic waste, and it is an excellent way to have an extra layer of protection in a fish bag.

While I do not acclimate new fish but just plop and drop them, I never float a bag of new fish in the tank where it is about to go. I am also aware that most fish keepers do acclimate. So, I will only write information on the outer bag never on the inner one. This means there is no chance the black ink might get into somebody's tank water. I assume most folks remove the outer bag and then float the inner one.

It is also important to understand two things about shipping. The first is the majority of the cost is not for the fish being shipped but for the water the fish must be in for the journey. This means the less water needed and used, the less weight that is being shipped. The second, and more important consideration, is oxygen. More specifically it is the oxygen in the water.

I have never used added oxygen in shipping bags. What is important, imo, is that there should be at least 50% of the bag space for air. More is even better. However, it is also essential that there is enough water in the bag so that the fish inside can be totally submerged whether the bag is upright or on its side.

I am also lucky to have a private well which has no chlorine or chloramine in it, so I do not use dechlor. I also hate shipping fish but I had to be good at it or it is hard to breed and sell fish, especially the more expensive ones. So I learned to be good at it. What I also came to understand was when shipping pricey fish, DOAs are a costly loss for me as well as a reputation killer.

I eventually developed a policy of discounting the fish price by about 20% if one picked them up instead of my having to ship them. Of course the buyer saved the shipping costs. I have had buyers spending enough that they flew to NY from Denver, Kansas City and Chicago to pick up the fish. I recently had a buyer drive up from Maryland to fetch their fish. (Yes, I still have one breeding pleco group left.)

I was very lucky with being a home based breeder in that I realized somewhat early on that the only way this could be a profitable undertaking was to work with more expensive fish. So, I gave up on bristlenose plecos and moved on to zebras. I was lucky because I could afford the $4,000 it required to get my first breeding group and the equipment etc. needed to house them and then their offspring. It was a huge risk and I had to take the money out of my IRA to pay for the fish etc. I got even luckier with both the opportunity to purchase them and then how soon they began spawning for me. The final plus ws that I was able to raise the babies.

I brought home the zebra breeders and 5 of their fry on about Apr. 15, 2006 and I had the initial spawn from the alpha male in the first week of May. Two weeks later the #2 male spawned. Since it takes about 4 weeks from the time of spawning to the time free swimming offspring have absorbed their yolk sac and left the cave, I was getting a new spawn about every 2 weeks. However, they did take a hiatus with the year's final spawn in early Dec. it was a bit over 3 months when they started up again in the same way.

I am far from being an expert on fish in general. I did learn over the years how properly to care for them, at least the ones I eventually acquired. I do regular tank maint. including water changes and I know how important diet is. But my greatest asset has been my well water. For softer water fish who can do well in a neutral or a bit lower pH, my water works miracles. I almost believe that it contains a natural fish aphrosisiac.

I have bought almost no fish from brick and mortar strores. Many of my fish were bough as imports, some came from wholesale suppliers and recently from experienced home based breeders in my fish club.

"One healthy shipped fish that arrives alive has to be worth the price of several DOAs." :nod:
 
I really don't like it at all and would never buy fish that way.
I’m with you . I don’t like it either but here we are . Gary’s right , all fish have been shipped this way and the pet shops get them this way . Way back when they probably came on a truck but now they fly . What a world we live in .
 

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