Second Stage Cycle Started Today Help

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lana

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now do i do a water change tonight ?



Picture057.jpg
 
Iana, its fun seeing your pictures but you need to be aware that digital cameras and computers (in particular) do not necessarily accurately portrait colors. We can't be sure what you are trying to tell us. Its important for you to place the tubes in front of the white area and then in front of a bright light and make your own interpretation of the number.

If you have just started to get some nitrite, but not a maximum scale reading of nitrite, then you haven't quite turned the corner to the second phase but you are close.

Once the nitrite spikes and you are definately in the second phase, there are a couple of things you can choose to do to watch the progress a little more easily. Instead of adding 5ppm on the next 24hour mark after ammonia drops to zero, you can just bring it back up to 3ppm. This will help keep you from producing quite as much nitrite, since its a 2.7-times multiple of the ammonia. The other thing you can start doing is 90% water changes on the weekends (with a recharge of ammonia of course.) This will lower the nitrite and nitrate down a lot and usually let you see some progress trends in your nitrite measurements.

Eventually of course, the N-Bacs will grow and the nitrites will finally start getting processed down to zero within 24 hours. At that point you will work your way back up from 3ppm adds to 5ppm adds again and you will end up with very robust bacterial colonies.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Iana, its fun seeing your pictures but you need to be aware that digital cameras and computers (in particular) do not necessarily accurately portrait colors. We can't be sure what you are trying to tell us. Its important for you to place the tubes in front of the white area and then in front of a bright light and make your own interpretation of the number.

If you have just started to get some nitrite, but not a maximum scale reading of nitrite, then you haven't quite turned the corner to the second phase but you are close.

Once the nitrite spikes and you are definately in the second phase, there are a couple of things you can choose to do to watch the progress a little more easily. Instead of adding 5ppm on the next 24hour mark after ammonia drops to zero, you can just bring it back up to 3ppm. This will help keep you from producing quite as much nitrite, since its a 2.7-times multiple of the ammonia. The other thing you can start doing is 90% water changes on the weekends (with a recharge of ammonia of course.) This will lower the nitrite and nitrate down a lot and usually let you see some progress trends in your nitrite measurements.

Eventually of course, the N-Bacs will grow and the nitrites will finally start getting processed down to zero within 24 hours. At that point you will work your way back up from 3ppm adds to 5ppm adds again and you will end up with very robust bacterial colonies.

~~waterdrop~~


but i am doing fish in cycle waterdrop

nitrites were at 0.25 tonight did 30% water change back to 0 ammonia at 0 to 0.25 i will check that again in the morning

and also seeing a yellowish orange for nitrate so i am thinking about 2.5 for that , as it is not to th 5.0 orange
 
Sorry Iana, got distracted by the kids, didn't have the main thread to roll back down to and usually we refer to 2 phases for fishless and can't detect it when doing fish-in (excuses, excuses ;) )

You're right, seeing some nitrite during the fish-in cycle does indeed let you know you are out there in the middle of the cycle. Sorry to go off giving the usual info for second phase of fishless. You are doing a great job keeping close to zero, especially since that cube is so tall!

~~waterdrop~~
 
Sorry Iana, got distracted by the kids, didn't have the main thread to roll back down to and usually we refer to 2 phases for fishless and can't detect it when doing fish-in (excuses, excuses ;) )

You're right, seeing some nitrite during the fish-in cycle does indeed let you know you are out there in the middle of the cycle. Sorry to go off giving the usual info for second phase of fishless. You are doing a great job keeping close to zero, especially since that cube is so tall!

~~waterdrop~~


lol s'ok i understand , did another water change this morning ammonia was almost 0.50 and nitrite was just shy of the purple anf nitrate was 5.0
water change was 40%
 
I guess one good thing about having to do lots of water changes as it really focuses you on working on the efficiency of your techniques...
 
I guess one good thing about having to do lots of water changes as it really focuses you on working on the efficiency of your techniques...


lol does it ever and i have the cleanest tank around every third day i clean just the tops of the gravel so i am on top of the too , once the thank is cycled my hubby wants to change the gravel to a more natural stone , what are your thoughts on doing that should i do it sooner than later
 
No I'd say later rather than sooner (sorry hubby!) (and I too like natural like hubby) The reason is that even once you've "officially" cycled (per our stiff rules!) you still have a "young" system on your hands and the filter will continue to mature for about 6 months (which is when we arbitrarily call it "fully mature" I guess!) Anyway during this maturing time, you are better off considering that all the surfaces in your tank may be contributing somewhat to the total culture of beneficial bacteria (dispite us always talking about how its mostly in the filter itself.)

Now all of this is variable. So if you get yourself fully cycled and are getting day after day of nice zero readings and you continue to show restraint and keep the tank pretty under-populated, then that frees you up a lot to do the gravel change. Anyway, you get the picture, you want to be understocked and getting really good stats and feeling like all is quite stable.

Now, about the gravel change. Unfortunately, that's one of the more disruptive procedures to do on a tank.. pretty much have to set up shop for the fish in a large bucket (ideally running the filter on it if you think you won't get finished quickly. Then you have to drain, clean out and replace. Of course I guess if you just jump in and do it, it doesn't have to take all that long. Filters can be switched off, just leaving water in them and the bacteria will be fine for at least 5 hours, if it comes to that.

~~waterdrop~~
 
so all is looking ok tonight , no water change needed ammonia was between 0 and 0.25, nitrite was a little dark blur not enought to worry about tonight.

omg the guy down stairs has a tank and tried to tell me not to worry about ammonia it was harmless to the fish and to leave my tank be that the water changes were hurting the natural habitat of the tank ... lmao


ok check in tomorrow
 
sounds good, ignore the guy downstairs or direct him to this forum, we'll sort him out!!! :lol:

def sounds like you're progressing well so keep up the good work.

ah changing out gravel's not as hard work as WD makes it out to be, I wouldn't suggets you do it while cycling but once the cycle is done you do this

1 - in the week leading up to the gravel change clean the gravel every day so you make sure you've no excess waste caught up in it.
2 - wash the new gravel
3 - drain the tank to one third full, remove all decor, catch the fish and pop them, into a large bucket of tank water(use two nets, hold a big net at one end of the tank, use a small net to chase them into the big one
4 - when all the fish are caught stick some of the plants or decor into the bucket to give the fish some cover, stick a tea towel or something similar over the bucket so it's dark and they can't jump out
5 - scoop out all the existing gravel
6 - put the new gravel in
7 - at this point you may see loads of muck stirred up in the tank, a bit is fine but if there's loads then siphon it out
8 - fill the tank up to two thirds full (remember dechlor), turn the heater and filter back on
9 - re-arrange your decor and plants
10 - when the water is up to temp pour the contents of the fish bucket straight into the tank
11 - top the tank up if water level is still a bit low

easy peasy, reckon it'd take me no more than 2 hours on a tank that size :good:
 
sounds good, ignore the guy downstairs or direct him to this forum, we'll sort him out!!! :lol:

def sounds like you're progressing well so keep up the good work.

ah changing out gravel's not as hard work as WD makes it out to be, I wouldn't suggets you do it while cycling but once the cycle is done you do this

1 - in the week leading up to the gravel change clean the gravel every day so you make sure you've no excess waste caught up in it.
2 - wash the new gravel
3 - drain the tank to one third full, remove all decor, catch the fish and pop them, into a large bucket of tank water(use two nets, hold a big net at one end of the tank, use a small net to chase them into the big one
4 - when all the fish are caught stick some of the plants or decor into the bucket to give the fish some cover, stick a tea towel or something similar over the bucket so it's dark and they can't jump out
5 - scoop out all the existing gravel
6 - put the new gravel in
7 - at this point you may see loads of muck stirred up in the tank, a bit is fine but if there's loads then siphon it out
8 - fill the tank up to two thirds full (remember dechlor), turn the heater and filter back on
9 - re-arrange your decor and plants
10 - when the water is up to temp pour the contents of the fish bucket straight into the tank
11 - top the tank up if water level is still a bit low

easy peasy, reckon it'd take me no more than 2 hours on a tank that size :good:



thank i did tell hiim everything he said i find different , and left it at that



morning readings

ammonia -- best guess is 0.10 to 0.15 very light

nitrite -- between 0 and 0.25 but closer to the 0

nitrare -- between 5.0 and 10.0

ph 7.2

temp holding great :good:

this moring i see a fish being weird tho he is rubbing up against a plant , saw him do it a couple times in a quick movement.... IS that normal? or should i worry :unsure:

meds i have on hand for emg. are
api's pimafix
api's melafix
api's super ink cure

if i shouls worry, do i have the right meds for them ? :unsure:
 
flicking against objects is a common symptom of ich, or white spot however it can also be a symptom of a lot of other disease, fish sometimes do it if there's particles floating around in the water which irritate them, likewise it can just be because the ammonia and nitrite in the water is irritating them.

i would suggest you step up the water changes to try and get the levels down to 0, then very closely monitor all the fish's behaviour and report back with any symptoms.

fish do flick or rub occasionally in all tanks so just seeing them do it once isn't immediate cause for concern, but it is something to keep an eye on particularly in a tank where we know the levels are off.
 
flicking against objects is a common symptom of ich, or white spot however it can also be a symptom of a lot of other disease, fish sometimes do it if there's particles floating around in the water which irritate them, likewise it can just be because the ammonia and nitrite in the water is irritating them.

i would suggest you step up the water changes to try and get the levels down to 0, then very closely monitor all the fish's behaviour and report back with any symptoms.

fish do flick or rub occasionally in all tanks so just seeing them do it once isn't immediate cause for concern, but it is something to keep an eye on particularly in a tank where we know the levels are off.




thank haven't seem it sence i will get hubby to watch for it today and see where i am when i get home from work, they have no spots that i can see so maybe he just had a itch :rolleyes:
 
Yup if there's no more then don't worry over it, sometimes they just get a little particle of something stuck against their scales and will rub to get it off.
 
aah, ok MW, my sentence and word choices probably were making a gravel changeout sound worse than it really is. Its not so hard (of course it helps if MW gives you a mere 11 steps and gets you started a week ahead :lol: )

Yes, I'd go very light and amused with the guy downstairs, eventually he'll become interested in how beautiful and healthy your tank is after its all settled and going. MW and the other experts taught me and my tank is looking crystal!

The guy downstairs, in my opinion, is making a common but subtle mental mistake, thinking of a tank as a natural environment. A fish tank is mostly only natural in looks (if we are successful in making it look that way) and in many other respects remains quite un-natural technically. We want to believe our illusion, but in truth mother nature uses thousands of gallons of water and acres of plants and substrates to do what we're trying to do. If you think about the amazon and african streams and lakes where these fish originally came from, you realize that in fact these resources for an individual fish are so large! Ammonia and Nitrite are just not likely to be an issue when a monsoon is sending thousands of gallons of water past you!

My own observation in my tank is that my fish virtually always seem to like water changes and perk up even more for a period after them, although they seem quite frisky and happy all the time. I still keep observing nothing but positive things from gravel clean water changes.

~~waterdrop~~
 

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