Seahorses

[puddle_inc]

this crab and the horse conflict is gonna make my next year or two a living heck. ( <--sensored)

after i get done reading a little more about live foods that are good for them i'm moving on to the medication and disease research.

i will see if i can find some erectus somewhere online with a good price. do they come in black? j/k


EDIT: just found some young ones on aquabid. this would give me time for them to grow up so i can learn more as they grow and stuff. there only $35 with shipping!

i just saw a pic of them too, there awesome!

 

[dixaisy930]

Make sure they are CB (captive bred). NOT captive raised....big difference.

 

[flamingonhot]

Oh dear.

1. If you're set on getting that horseshoe crab, leave the seahorses out... period. I would have worries about putting my coral banded shrimp in with my seahorse, let alone a horseshoe (and i've had horseshoes in the past trust me...). They do not grow extremely fast, but when they go to eat they are very voracious and stab at the sand to find food. Could easily trap a sleeping seahorse. 10 dollar crab or a 40-100 dollar fish?

2. Don't buy that seahorse as your first one! Not only is it probably wild caught (tank raised usually means WC and raised in a tank), it's also awfully small to be shipped. If it does make it to your house okay, you'll likely end up having a lot of problems. I was thinking about buying one of their horses in the future, but i've already had experience with horses & pipes, of both wild caught and captive bred origins.

3. Frozen foods should be the staple. Frozen mysis (PE energetics and hikari are the best) are the wisest choices, and live brine, mysis, etc. are a snack only.

4. Im saying you can breed them and keep them, but at the same time guessing your also going to research and know what your doing beforehand. It's not impossible, but its not easy also.
'
I have a lot more to say, but I dont have the time.

 

[puddle_inc]

i know the rest of you were just giving opinions but flaming, your just trying to be a smart@$$. (excuse my symbol-type language)

do you think if i knew breeding animals were hard, especially saltwater fish, that i would of even started in puddle inc?

don't underestimate me just because of age. i know the horseshoe crabs can get big, and i'm ready for that. i also know that there is a good chance that the five month seahorses can be shipped safely with good shipping. the horseshow crab won't bother the seahorses. the seahorses will most likely stay in the planted area, let alone go in the sand only area and lay near the bottom where they could get hurt.


i'l also have a 20 gallon for the babies.

or would a 10 gallon be enough for the babies? i wasn't sure how big they would be before i would let them go into the 50 gal. so should i go with 10 or 20gal fry tank?


my ghost shrimp are breeding really nice in my invertabrate only tank. at this rate i will have tons when i get my seahorses. i know they don't eat shrimp only but they will have good snacks!

 

[dixaisy930]

I think flaming is just trying to give you FACTS. I don't read her post as condesending at all. Age has nothing to do with it. It's how much experience and research a person does that determines their credibility. You seem to be willing to take too many extreme risks. I will beg with you one last time, please do more than just a week or two worth of research. There is no rush, trust me.

RUSH=LOSS

Waiting really is worth it. I didn't even set up my saltwater tank until I had been researching for a solid year. It was about a month after my tank finished cycling before I brought home my first pair of seahorses. You will enjoy them much more if they are in a healthy, compatible environment. I know you don't want to be on here in a month or two wondering why the seahorses won't eat or why they can't seem to swim right.

 

[andywg]

don't underestimate me just because of age. i know the horseshoe crabs can get big, and i'm ready for that. i also know that there is a good chance that the five month seahorses can be shipped safely with good shipping. the horseshow crab won't bother the seahorses. the seahorses will most likely stay in the planted area, let alone go in the sand only area and lay near the bottom where they could get hurt.

I am not underestimating you on your age, just your inability to listen to good advice. Read the pages from Bob Fenner's WetWebMedia and actually realise how these fish are not easy to keep in any way shape or form. Of all the problems with keeping a horseshoe crab, the final adult size are low down on the list.

A horseshoe crab is coldwater, not temperate or sub tropical - COLD. That is 10-17 degrees C. Sea Horses are from tropical waters with a temperature usually around 23-28 degrees depending on depth and time of year.

That is a large difference. On top of this, the horseshoe gets to a foot long and feeds by sifting the sand meaning you would need a very large and deep tank devoid of any large amounts of live rock and probably artificially seeded with invertebrate life to prevent it starving.

Most horseshoe crabs die of starvation caused by an unnaturally high metabolism as a result of being kept in inappropriate tanks with regards to food and temperature.

I must admit I questioned myself before posting this. It looks like you want a horsehoe crab and no matter what anyone says you are going to get one and almost certainly kill it.

 

[puddle_inc]

omg, i'm not going to kill anything. and i'm not just doing a week of research. it will be a month or two before i get the seahorse. and i may hold off on the horseshoe crab just to save up for a more longer and not high tank.

i don't see why you keep acting like i would get anything even if i thought it would die. i would not do anything to harm them and if i didn't think i would be able to take good care of them i would not be getting them. i'm going to possibly leave guppies, so i can devote more tanks and more time to the seahorses.

 

[Dragonscales]

omg, i'm not going to kill anything. and i'm not just doing a week of research. it will be a month or two before i get the seahorse. and i may hold off on the horseshoe crab just to save up for a more longer and not high tank.

i don't see why you keep acting like i would get anything even if i thought it would die. i would not do anything to harm them and if i didn't think i would be able to take good care of them i would not be getting them. i'm going to possibly leave guppies, so i can devote more tanks and more time to the seahorses.

Seahorses prefer a higher tank, especially if you plan on breeding them. They will need at least twice their body length in height to court properly.

Your best bet to keep these two animals together would be larger, temperate seahorses and that means a very large, expensive tank (large footprint for the Horseshoe crab and alot of height for the seahorses) as well as less than optimum temperature conditions for the inhabitants (the seahorses will be in water that's on the lower side of their range and the Horseshoe will be in the higher side of it's temp range). Doing this is only going to increase the risk of problems in the tank due to diseases, stress, etc when it would be much better to have two tanks and keep them seperately. That is without even begining to touch on the differences in habitat these animals prefer, seahorses needing hitches, high filtration due to high waste output (generally in the form of lots of liverock), etc while the Horseshoe would need alot more spartan livingspace by comparison.

Now, with that said, you can take my post as an "attack" or as me being a "smarta$$" all you like or for what it is, advice to the best of my ability (the same as with the others who have posted here). For the record, I don't know how old you are and personally couldn't give a brass razoo whether you were 8 or 58, my advice would be the same regardless. I am also not saying it would be "impossible" to keep these two together, but what I am saying (IMHO) is that it probably isn't "worth" it for the amount you will be spending on the tank as well as the added risks a setup like this would have due to less than ideal conditions for the animals in question; it would be better to simply setup two tanks and enjoy them both in their ideal habitats and temps.

 

[dixaisy930]

i will see if i can find some erectus somewhere online with a good price. do they come in black? j/k

EDIT: just found some young ones on aquabid. this would give me time for them to grow up so i can learn more as they grow and stuff. there only $35 with shipping!

This sounded like you were pretty ready to purchase

It's just that people keep giving you reasons NOT to get the horseshoe crab and you kept on insisiting on getting. I'm very glad to hear you've decided a horseshoe crab was a bad idea. Good decision! I'm sure you'll discover another invert you'll enjoy more than a horseshoe.

And I know you'll be glad you've done months and months of research before you set up the tank. The slower you take this, the better.

Thanks for seeing where we were coming from. Waiting another five or six months to get horses is a mature, educated decision. You are now on the right path.

 

[dizzied]

I know you're building a breeding business, but I think you should seriously consider staying away from seahorses. These are nowhere as easy to keep as pond snails, and you don't seem to take other's advice all too well. I think you should build your way up to seahorses, no matter how much research you're doing.

 

[flamingonhot]

The only smarta$$ I see here is you puddle. I'm trying to help, I DID NOT yell or critisize you in any way. If you want to waste all that money and kill all those fish go right ahead, I don't care what you do anymore. Obviously, taking my time to write you a response and being yelled at at the same time doing so wasn't worth it.


Btw, why would I underestimate you on your age? If you haven't noticed im FIFTEEN and im a GUY. Heck, don't take my advice! I'm only a seahorse addict! I have nothing to offer whatsoever! Before you open your mouth, think before you tick off the people that are trying to help you.

 

[puddle_inc]

I know you're building a breeding business, but I think you should seriously consider staying away from seahorses. These are nowhere as easy to keep as pond snails, and you don't seem to take other's advice all too well. I think you should build your way up to seahorses, no matter how much research you're doing.

i've done research and i know how hard it will be. they said it would be hard to get snails that have a higher rate of living past ick cure and other fish disease cures. they said it was hard to get minnow sized bass that could live and breed the size of a minno AND at the same time live in aquarium water, like guppies and other fish. they were both hard to, but i'm not gonna give up.

i've worked my way up, and i'm gonna do tons of research.

for those that have said to do more research, i've read almost eevrythign i could find about them on google, but i always keep searching. i have also read almost all of the articles on seahorse.org

anyone know other sites that would be good to read? i'm also reading salt water aquariums for dummies.



i've got the prices of all my equipment also. i'm starting with my phytoplankton culture today. this will help enrich the nutrients in all of there live food and they may get plankton by drinking the water also. not sure what you call it when a fish, in water, drinks...


i'm also gonna start copeods before long too.

and i'm still getting the horseshoe crab. i'm not gonna not get him because he can't be with them happily. he will just be put off until i can get a longer wider and less tall tank.

i'm going to be getting the baby erectus. by the time i get them they will be 3-5 months from being sexually mature.

near the middle or end of next month i MAY be getting the babies then. thats if i have all of my equipment by then.

also, do you guys think they can live in a 20g as babies or will it be safe to have them in a 50g?

i'm gonna safe up for live rock. i've got coral and shells with barnicles on them from the beach i went to a while back. and yes, it was LEGALLY collected.

if anyone wants to add more or give advance here is my equipment list that i have made so far. this will end up, after time, being about a 300-400 dollar project but worth it!


I believe this is the whole list. i may update if i forgot something.






3 blue leg hermit crabs - $13.49
horseshoe crab - $10+shipping approx. $45
2-3 seahorses -$100-$130
plants - $10 (for a 12 pack of live saltwater plants)
salt - $30+ (not sure how much it will take to make 50 gallons of saltwater)
filter - $35
light -$20-$30+
50 gallon - $50-$100+
20 gallon - $20+
emergency book (i made it, it has most common diseases and there treatments)
air pump (2 line) - $10
brine shrimp net - $4
heater - $23
aquarium brush (for cleaning) - $4
ghost shrimp (already breed)
phyto plankton (just started culture today)
copepod & rotifers starter culture - $16
brine shrimp (already breed and wil enrich with phytoplankton)
2 airline tube splitters - $2
25' airline tubing - $3
master test kit - $30+
snails (what type should i get? turbo? nassarius? cowry?)


medications list below:
formalin - $2-$3
methylene blue - $5-$7
diamox (still looking for it)
acetazolamide tablet (still looking for it)
paragon (i saw it on seahorse.org in the disease area. is this a medication i can buy? i didn't fully read all of the things in that section yet)

The only smarta$$ I see here is you puddle. I'm trying to help, I DID NOT yell or critisize you in any way. If you want to waste all that money and kill all those fish go right ahead, I don't care what you do anymore. Obviously, taking my time to write you a response and being yelled at at the same time doing so wasn't worth it.


Btw, why would I underestimate you on your age? If you haven't noticed im FIFTEEN and im a GUY. Heck, don't take my advice! I'm only a seahorse addict! I have nothing to offer whatsoever! Before you open your mouth, think before you tick off the people that are trying to help you.

this is what i mean. you were rude about it. you kept saying how i'll kill everything. that is pretty rude if you ask me.

if your 15 then you should start acting like it and stop being rude and saying i'll killl everything, and how i don't research and don't care about the animals.

Make sure they are CB (captive bred). NOT captive raised....big difference.

oh, and before i forget, they are captive breed. i wouldn't by the wc horses for many reasons.

 

[dizzied]

I wouldn't call what you did hard, especially compared to what you're attempting now.

And I didn't find flamingonhot trying to be a smart***, he was simply giving you advice.

 

[flamingonhot]

The only post I said you may kill everything is in my last one.

Your later ones seem to be tad bit different than the first ones, but I still don't appreciate YOU calling me a smarta$$ when all I did was take my time to help you.

You said you were going to buy that one on aquabid, well, it says tank raised. They raise killifish and the like, and when I talked with someone they said they were probably wild caught to BEGIN with, then raised in a tank (which is what tank raised usually means). They still have the same problems that wild caught adult horses do, and I was TRYING to warn you about the possibility of it dying. No matter how much experience or knowledge you have, wild caughts usually prove tricky for anyone. You absolutely need to deworm them and give them a freshwater dip as a preventative- and anyways, doing such with a small seahorse is more risky then with an adult.

The only reason I came off as harsh (barely.,.) in that one post is because I was rushed, being yelled at, and I was starting to have a crappy day. I didn't have the luxury of having 40 mintues to type something liek this. After reading your posts (after being told not to a few times) you seemed stuck on the idea of that horseshoe crab, even though we said it could kill your horses. Horses do not sit in a spot all day, they roam. And even if not, horseshoe crabs swim all over a tank when they look for food. They swim upside down, they shoot to the top, and they crawl and feel everything.

Add frozen mysis to that list to make it another 40 dollars, and if your going with erectus, skip the rotifers, they don't usually eat it half of the time- and you don't need it unless owrking iwth reidi, etc.

There, hope that helped, and I hope to god I don't get called a smarta$$ again for helping someone I don't even know.

 

[puddle_inc]

sorry, i have had a rough day also. but i just thought you were trying to be rude when you mentioned things like i don't research and i'm going to harm my fish and stuff. truths?


anyway, i'll get frozen mysis too. but can't i culture it instead of buying $40 worth of frozen mysis? or however you spell it.

i would do a freshwater dip anyway. just to be on the safe side. but as you said, would it be dangerous to freshdip a young one? btw, i talked to the guy and stuff. they were breed in there aquariums.

plus, i thought it would be a good idea to get young ones. they can grow up in the tank the will live in and it will give me lots of time to whatch them, learn from them, and have more tiem to research about breeding and rearing and all of that.


i'm going to add live rock to my list. i forgot about it.

btw, is there something i should do to my 'wc' coral and barnacles? i have like 3 egg clutches of something. they were all laid in the empty clam shells. could they be clams? if i got a pic would anyone be able to help a bit? i'll try to get a pic of my coral and stuff. i also have a piece of sponge but idk if it's alive.