Seachem Stability New Tank Log

[soybean]

Up to about 6 weeks. ie, the average length of time it takes to cycle a filter.

 

[Sly13Cat]

Oh. I thought the bacteria would just figure it out and grown on the new sponge within a week. BTW how long does it take a molly to grow full size because it seems like in the past couple days one gained a centimeter. I have to find another way to get some sponge into my new filter. So basically gravel and plants from the other tank won't help?

 

[soybean]

You could put some gravel in but the amount of bacteria in gravel is minute compared to sponge. Plants wont help.

 

[Sly13Cat]

Well it's worth a shot. I'll add some gravel.

 

[soybean]

There isn't a way to speed this up really, without using mature media. It'll cycle when it cycles. In the meantime you should be doing very large daily water changes, at least 75%, while there is ammonia and nitrite present in the water. This is the only thing you can do for your fish. There isn't a shortcut.

 

[Sly13Cat]

My Nitrifying bacteria seems to refuse to build (Nitrite 1 PPM)... I bought some plants. 1 _____________ and 2 Spider Plant looking things. Here's a picture:

Recently I've learned of the "Silent Cycle". Do you think that these plants may help to silent cycle the tank? This isn't a shortcut but it seems like a good added benefit of using live plants. What do you think? Could this help out. Within a week I plan on planting some Cambodia. Would this help?

 

[FishFanatic04]

A silent cycle requires a much, much larger abundance of plants. Most of your tank would need to be covered from what I understand. A few plants really won't help you much. This is why most people fish-less cycle. Doing a cycle with fish-in is really hard work. All cycles take a very long time and a lot of patience. Keep up the water changes. Nitrites at 1 are very poisonous to your fish.

I also wouldn't think that a beginner to cycling tanks should silent cycle anyway. You really need to understand your plants, if you have any that are dying, that will raise your ammonia.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

While it is correct the amount of bacteria normally found in the gravel will not be equal to what will be found in the bio-media of one's filter, it is often not possible to split the bio-media up. So the two next best options are gravel and then plants. The plants have bacteria on them and on the roots and, if potted int the rock wool. The originator of fishless cycling advocated seeding and listed adding new live plants as the 2nd best way to seed a new tank. Substrate was next. He had it backwards there, imo, but either will always help more than nothing.

As I also posted before there are at least two bottled bacteria that should work and that there are water treatments that can be used to detox ammonia and nitrite among other things. And you always have an option to park the fish in and uncycled heated, aerated container and try to complete the cycle w/o fish.

If you see the fish starting to gasp at the surface due to nitrite poisoning, you can add some salt to the water short term to alleviate the problem.

If you want to continue with fish in, then water changes are your friend.

 

[FishFanatic04]

I have not seen evidence that bottled bacteria works at all. My own experiment with the seachem brand was a joke. The OP was suggesting switching to a "Silent cycle" which I am sure is not going to work with the addition of 3 small plants, NOT that the plants would help the current cycle.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have used them and they worked just fine. Seachem's Stability is not one I would never suggest as it does not contain any of the needed bacteria. And the 3 plants will help, just not much as a silent cycling thing but because they bring in some bacteria. The more bacteria that comes in from any source the faster the tank will cycle.

Fishfanatic have you read either of the original papers on fishless cycling written by Dr. Chris Cow (Ph.D. Organic Chemistry) in 1999 and 2001 and made available on the internet?

He wrote them without knowing about how elevated ammonia and especially nitrite levels can inhibit the bacteria or even kill some number. While his methods are still basically soli,d the ammonia dosing levels should actually be a bit lower and the dosing less frequent than he suggested based on research since he wrote his papers. They were also written before working bottled bacteria were available.

Here is what he said about seeding:

[font="Trebuchet MS][b]Sources of Bacteria[/b] [/font]

[font="Trebuchet MS]While it is probable that the bacteria required for the conversion of ammonia and nitrite to nitrate exist at very low levels in most uncycled tanks, it greatly accelerates the process to inoculate the tank with a large dose of healthy bacteria to get things started. Good sources of beneficial bacteria are ranked from best to least: [/font]

[list=1][font="Trebuchet MS][*] Filter material (floss, sponge, biowheel, etc.) from an established, disease-free tank.[*] Live plants (preferably potted, leave the rockwool on until cycling is finished). Crypts or amazon swords are good choices, and not too demanding.[*] Gravel from an established, disease-free tank. (Many lfs [local fish stores] will give this away if asked nicely.)[*] Other ornaments (driftwood, rocks, etc.) from an established tank.[*] Squeezings from a filter sponge (any lfs should be willing to do this...)[/font][/list][/quote]

From [url="http/malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm"]http/malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm[/url]

And filling a tank with plants would help. Just putting in a mass of floaters would help.

Another misconception is that simply adding a sponge or additional filter to an established tank creates more bacteria. It does not. What it will do is spread out the ones that are there. Since a filter normally offers the best home for bacteria to live and multiply, new space is inviting. While the size of a bacterial colony in a tank may remain constant, the individual bacterium do not. They are continually dying and reproducing. Some will end up in new media and colonize it, but then you will have fewer in the original filter. The size of the colony tends to size to the bio-load over time. The only way to get more bacteria is to have more ammonia available.

That is why one needs to be careful not to remove too much filter media from and established tank to seed a new one. It can cause spikes in the original tank if one does. Even when short lived, it will not do the fish any good.

 

[soybean]

That is why one needs to be careful not to remove too much filter media from and established tank to seed a new one. It can cause spikes in the original tank if one does. Even when short lived, it will not do the fish any good

Who suggested moving too much? It he moved up to a third from a an established filter into his new one it would be fine, I've done it myself with no spikes in the original tank, as have MANY other people.

Look. The bottom line here is the op is in a total mess with this tank and needs basic help and advice. Hes already tried to cut corners by using one pointless bacteria in a bottle baloney, what he needs now is to get through a fish in cycle.

The few plants added are going to do zilch, you would need loads and loads. Let me make it clear, you are not in a silent cycle, and really that's the last thing you want to get into.

Once again, I don't know how else to say it, there is no shortcut here unless you add a source of bacteria somehow ie established filter media. Test DAILY, change almost all of the water if need be DAILY, because currently you are poisoning the fish, pure and simple. That is how you do a fish-in cycle. It's a huge commitment and undertaking and if you're not prepared to do it properly rehome the fish and just buy a bottle of ammonia and do it that way.

 

[CezzaXV]

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but I believe the plant in your photo to be a Japanese Rush plant. It's one of the many types of plant sold by fish shops that are actually not aquatic and will eventually start rotting and creating yet more ammonia.

 

[FishFanatic04]

That is why one needs to be careful not to remove too much filter media from and established tank to seed a new one. It can cause spikes in the original tank if one does. Even when short lived, it will not do the fish any good

Who suggested moving too much? It he moved up to a third from a an established filter into his new one it would be fine, I've done it myself with no spikes in the original tank, as have MANY other people.

Look. The bottom line here is the op is in a total mess with this tank and needs basic help and advice. Hes already tried to cut corners by using one pointless bacteria in a bottle baloney, what he needs now is to get through a fish in cycle.

The few plants added are going to do zilch, you would need loads and loads. Let me make it clear, you are not in a silent cycle, and really that's the last thing you want to get into.

Once again, I don't know how else to say it, there is no shortcut here unless you add a source of bacteria somehow ie established filter media. Test DAILY, change almost all of the water if need be DAILY, because currently you are poisoning the fish, pure and simple. That is how you do a fish-in cycle. It's a huge commitment and undertaking and if you're not prepared to do it properly rehome the fish and just buy a bottle of ammonia and do it that way.

This is my point. All of the above. You have to stop trying to cut corners on tank cycling. You began this thread trying to find a shortcut. I don't think this is a good hobby for people who are not patient. Most of the people here really try to be supportive, but not if it becomes a wasted effort.




TwoTankAmin- I have moved 1/3 or 1/4 of my ceramic from one tank to another without any spikes. I think the bacteria can multiply fast enough to catch up. Every time I do a weekly water change I am adding a significant amount of ammonia to my tank. I do a 50% change and my tap water has 1.0 ppm ammonia. The bacteria in my filter handles it fine. If what your saying about media is true...then the bacteria in my filter should have died back some through the week and then after the water change I would see a spike. But I don't. 6 hours later, and nitrite and ammonia are at 0.

 

[Sly13Cat]

Haven't been able to do water changes, testing and feeding the fishes is a hard task because the cold/flu has hit me really hard

. So after 4 days of no water changes or testing I've finally been able to get the energy to test the water and here are the results Day 35ish (Almost exactly 5 weeks): Nitrite -> 0 PPM Nitrate -> 10-20 PPM. The cycle has finally finished

! Oddly enough the Nitrate seems to have lowered its self but that's probably because of the Red Ludwiga which has grown quite a bit (1-2 cm) in the past week its been in there. Returned the Japanese Rushes back to PetSmart yesterday as it was rotting and I was going to return it anyways. I'd like to thank everyone here for helping me out, the fish are happy and I plan on returning the Mollies for Dwarf Cories at Big Al's who will happily take them when they get too big and I want to start a planted tank but I think I'll wait a while considering it just cycled.

To me Seachem Stability is garbage and I hope I can find some way to return it.

Thanks,
Sly13Cat

 

[soybean]

Sorry to hear you've been ill, tank maintenance is the last thing on my list when I'm I'll too.

You've given your nitrite and nitrate, can I ask your ammonia reading?

Also you need to keep on testing daily, you can consider it cycled when you're getting continuous 0s for ammonia and nitrite, and a stable reading for nitrate, for at least a week.