Scientific Theories/Paradoxes

[GaryE]

These are great speculative things, not theories, but they are on par with what if your Uncle had been a gudgeon and your mother a carp? The answers defy logic because the premise is faulty - we can't time travel except in bad sci-fi plots.
You can examine them upside down and inside out. What if World War One had never happened? What would have happened if more Gnostic texts had been included in the Bible? What if Neanderthals had remained dominant in Europe? What if that girl I asked out in Grade 8 had said yes? It's entertainment to consider it all. But in all of those scenarios, the variables are so many.

What if chocolate had never been discovered? Then maybe your unshot grandfather would have brought a box of dried prunes on his first date with your grandmother and she would have shot him.

 

[Rocky998]

These are great speculative things, not theories, but they are on par with what if your Uncle had been a gudgeon and your mother a carp? The answers defy logic because the premise is faulty - we can't time travel except in bad sci-fi plots.
You can examine them upside down and inside out. What if World War One had never happened? What would have happened if more Gnostic texts had been included in the Bible? What if Neanderthals had remained dominant in Europe? What if that girl I asked out in Grade 8 had said yes? It's entertainment to consider it all. But in all of those scenarios, the variables are so many.

What if chocolate had never been discovered? Then maybe your unshot grandfather would have brought a box of dried prunes on his first date with your grandmother and she would have shot him.

I do think time travel is possible but we don't have the science or tech for it...
And if we ever did get it, we'd never know.
The governments would keep it secret to the highest level.
You have to think, "why haven't there been any time travelers to times before?". The answer lies in what I said above. The governments would most likely ALMOST never use it and keep it to the highest degree of secrecy.
It would only be needed for THE MOST severe situations... Who knows what already has been changed... Maybe we are living an altered present as we speak
Freaky to think about... But that's debatable and it's hard to believe...
Interesting thoughts though.

The theories of time travel are disputed among physicists... So it's not invalid

What if that girl I asked out in Grade 8 had said yes?

That seems a little too specific, are you ok?

What if chocolate had never been discovered? Then maybe your unshot grandfather would have brought a box of dried prunes on his first date with your grandmother and she would have shot him.

Again, are you ok?

 

[kiko]

well..people always liked to believe in time travel...
honestly I believe it could be done if we ever reach faster than light travel
but you would only be able to travel one way and that is to the future...
so the grandfather paradox would never be possible
and if you did travel into the future you wouldn't be able to affect anyone anyways because you'd live the remainder of your life in it...

 

[Rocky998]

well..people always liked to believe in time travel...
honestly I believe it could be done if we ever reach faster than light travel
but you would only be able to travel one way and that is to the future...
so the grandfather paradox would never be possible
and if you did travel into the future you wouldn't be able to affect anyone anyways because you'd live the remainder of your life in it...

Yup! That is definitely true.
The theory of relativity

It's definitely much harder to go BACK in time than it is to go FORWARD in time...
But IF the tech and science DID exist for going backwards in time, the Grandfather Paradox could definitely take place.
It's all about the IFs and the Theories. The idea of something and putting hypotheses into play in your mind. Using your brain to calculate the problem.

The IF this was real... I bet a lot of things started by the idea of an "If"... Nothing is directly impossible. There is an answer to everything.

 

[kiko]

Yup! That is definitely true.
The theory of relativity

It's definitely much harder to go BACK in time than it is to go FORWARD in time...
But IF the tech and science DID exist for going backwards in time, the Grandfather Paradox could definitely take place.
It's all about the IFs and the Theories. The idea of something and putting hypotheses into play in your mind. Using your brain to calculate the problem.

The IF this was real... I bet a lot of things started by the idea of an "If"... Nothing is directly impossible. There is an answer to everything.

true but for as long as humanity follow a money type society evolution takes 2nd place...
when humanity can manipulate atoms and create materials out of thin air type III/IV civilization and harness the power of nuclear fusion without 3rd party fuels
then we as a civilization will make an evolutionary jump...with free world power next step would be moving on from this world
so creating things like shields and ships that can withstand space travel even at a slow pace we'd be able to travel in multiple-generation ships
but as of now...we can't even make a machine that can recreate itself or create parts out of thin air let alone damaged panel walls from a generation ship
when scientists/engineers create a machine that can create multiple atoms and bind them at will to create different materials
regardless of energy requirements (this is where nuclear fusion needs to come into play)
then we will be able to literally create 500inch thick walls for a ship to be able to travel through space and resist small stone impacts
a simple design would simply be multiple 3 magnetic rings around a ship spinning so fast that any small stones would just ricochet off of them
then they would have to be perfectly aligned so when we do spin the inner ring the outer 2 would follow...
then you have another problem...
what IF instead of a small pebble one of the rings got hit by a huge stone? it's space after all...they would touch each other break apart and kill all inside the ship
shields? sure...electricity has atoms...we'd have to be able to push electricity much faster than the speed of light to act as a "wall" so I doubt this one will ever happen...

 

[Rocky998]

true but for as long as humanity follow a money type society evolution takes 2nd place...
when humanity can manipulate atoms and create materials out of thin air type III/IV civilization and harness the power of nuclear fusion without 3rd party fuels
then we as a civilization will make an evolutionary jump...with free world power next step would be moving on from this world
so creating things like shields and ships that can withstand space travel even at a slow pace we'd be able to travel in multiple-generation ships
but as of now...we can't even make a machine that can recreate itself or create parts out of thin air let alone damaged panel walls from a generation ship
when scientists/engineers create a machine that can create multiple atoms and bind them at will to create different materials
regardless of energy requirements (this is where nuclear fusion needs to come into play)
then we will be able to literally create 500inch thick walls for a ship to be able to travel through space and resist small stone impacts
a simple design would simply be multiple 3 magnetic rings around a ship spinning so fast that any small stones would just ricochet off of them
then they would have to be perfectly aligned so when we do spin the inner ring the outer 2 would follow...
then you have another problem...
what IF instead of a small pebble one of the rings got hit by a huge stone? it's space after all...they would touch each other break apart and kill all inside the ship
shields? sure...electricity has atoms...we'd have to be able to push electricity much faster than the speed of light to act as a "wall" so I doubt this one will ever happen...

Yah... I believe what you're talking about with the instant creation of things and binding of atoms with nuclear fusion is a fabricator. Kinda what Tony Stark and Spider-Man use in the Marvel universe...
There Jas been breakthroughs lately with nuclear fusion. Of course we are far away from any of those things you have mentioned... But this is cool:

Nuclear fusion breakthrough a milestone for the future of clean energy, US officials say | CNN

US Department of Energy officials announced a history-making accomplishment in nuclear fusion Tuesday: For the first time, US scientists produced more energy from fusion than the laser energy they used to power the experiment.

www.cnn.com

 

[kiko]

there have been breakthroughs for the last 50 years...and fusion is always 10 years away xDDD
but yes...when we achieve true nuclear fusion without using outside fuels to maintain it not deuterium/lithium based
it's going to make an impact so big that we will advance 10 fold as processors can then be light-based regardless of consumption instead of board/wire/silica based as we have nowadays
right now we're only missing 2 things for an evolutionary jump
nuclear fusion and power storage...when we come up with nuclear fusion for endless power and a means of storing enough power to power a big city like new york for a year in something so small it could fit in your hand
then limitations we have nowadays won't exist...hunger wouldn't exist as we'd be able to farm even in places like siberia with temperature control as we wished
food prices would drop and energy companies would stop to exist and become a government managed project or sourced for maintenance...electricians etc...
deliveries could be automated as drones would have all the power to fly around and not be distance limited...
many many things would change

 

[GaryE]

I think you guys are mixing science fiction with science. A theory has to be something you can gather evidence to prove or disprove,. A belief is an opinion. You can believe the past doesn't dissolve as we walk beyond it, and that the moment I typed this still somehow exists. I can believe it no longer exists. We can talk about it, but it's hard to prove or disprove. That stuff is just fun mental "if" games.

The future is unwritten, as the late great Joe Strummer said. For it to exist as a place to go to would involve the old belief in predestination, and that falls into religion. You'd have to prove there are destinies and fates instead of luck and contingencies. That's an entire other kettle of fish to stir.

I do think time travel is possible but we don't have the science or tech for it...
And if we ever did get it, we'd never know.
The governments would keep it secret to the highest level.
You have to think, "why haven't there been any time travelers to times before?". The answer lies in what I said above. The governments would most likely ALMOST never use it and keep it to the highest degree of secrecy.
It would only be needed for THE MOST severe situations... Who knows what already has been changed... Maybe we are living an altered present as we speak
Freaky to think about... But that's debatable and it's hard to believe...
Interesting thoughts though.

The theories of time travel are disputed among physicists... So it's not invalid




That seems a little too specific, are you ok?


Again, are you ok?

Rocky, you have a very interesting paranoia about democratic governments. I've met and talked with people who had great power, and they bumble along like the rest of us, except very confidently in nicer suits. Secrets that big would leak out. Of course if they did sneak back into the past to change things, you'd never know, since you exist and think in the present. Plus someone would steal the tech and sell it to their friends in the private sector anyway.

Okay, so I brought a girl a box of dried prunes when I asked her to a dance when I was in my teens, and she shot me down for it, and ran off with the quarterback.... I thought about telling her about the metallic green guppies I was working with, but even I knew better than that back then.

My DeLorean is painted that metallic colour now. Well, maybe not now. On Wednesday.

 

[ClownLurch]

Is it the Stephen King time travel/Kennedy assassination novel where the traveller has to keep his head down and survive by betting on gridiron-boxing-baseball-horse racing results that he already knows?
I like the idea of that more than the idea of killing my poor Grandfather. Mind you I’d head to a somewhat warmer climate than the NE of England where he lived his life. I’d mix up the “gambling” (which it wouldn’t actually be would it?) with buying stock in Apple, Microsoft etc.
Imagine not having to work for a living? Awwwwh maaaan.

 

[Rocky998]

I think you guys are mixing science fiction with science. A theory has to be something you can gather evidence to prove or disprove,. A belief is an opinion. You can believe the past doesn't dissolve as we walk beyond it, and that the moment I typed this still somehow exists. I can believe it no longer exists. We can talk about it, but it's hard to prove or disprove. That stuff is just fun mental "if" games.

The future is unwritten, as the late great Joe Strummer said. For it to exist as a place to go to would involve the old belief in predestination, and that falls into religion. You'd have to prove there are destinies and fates instead of luck and contingencies. That's an entire other kettle of fish to stir.

I do not believe in predestination. We all have free will so anything and everything is possible... There are a lot of outcomes and possibilities.
There is a science for everything, proven or not proven. NASA knows time travel is possible if you go fast enough but nothing they have made can survive that speed and no one inside of it would either, so they can't REALLY prove it yet.

Going into the past is easier logic wise. Going into the future is easier according to science. In space, time goes differently than on earth. You can "travel" to the future but you will never be able into go BACK to your time.
Cause scientifically, we don't know how and we may never know how. I will never say its impossible. Anything can be possible. But the science just may be too complex for us.

Rocky, you have a very interesting paranoia about democratic governments. I've met and talked with people who had great power, and they bumble along like the rest of us, except very confidently in nicer suits. Secrets that big would leak out. Of course if they did sneak back into the past to change things, you'd never know, since you exist and think in the present. Plus someone would steal the tech and sell it to their friends in the private sector anyway.

I am no conspiracy theorist. I don't go on about what governments do or don't do against us but I do know they hide secrets. (Every government does and to deny that is being naive.) And maybe its for good reasons. They don't want people panicked and they don't want high tech (not talking about time travel here, just any high tech stuff) in the hands of civilians who can use it in really evil ways...
Imagine if a normal person knew how to build high tech weapons cause the governments don't keep it classified... That could be dangerous.
Of course he'd need the parts but still. Its dangerous.

And yah, if we are living an altered past (which I doubt), we wouldn't know, ever.

Okay, so I brought a girl a box of dried prunes when I asked her to a dance when I was in my teens, and she shot me down for it, and ran off with the quarterback.... I thought about telling her about the metallic green guppies I was working with, but even I knew better than that back then.

Ahh ok... Yah, sorry man...

My DeLorean is painted that metallic colour now. Well, maybe not now. On Wednesday.

 

[GaryE]

Hmm. I don't think you can outrace now. If you go fast enough, you'll still be going fast now. I doubt time is linear.

Someone may someday see. Hopefully us. I'll bet we find time to be a huge convoluted tangled swamplike wonder. It'll be a forest, not a road.

My grandfather could have told us, but when I was 16, I went back in time, and, well, you know.

 

[Rocky998]

Hmm. I don't think you can outrace now. If you go fast enough, you'll still be going fast now. I doubt time is linear.

It's faster than the speed of light you have to go. Which I highly doubt we will achieve...

Once we have light speed tech, we may be able to "go into the future" KINDA.
Time goes differently when you are far away from earth in space.
So you go far away real fast.
Say I go away. You all will age and be older or die by just living your normal life... But when I come back I will be a LITTLE older but it will be a complete different year.

Possible but would I want to do it? Never...

 

[JuiceBox52]

H

I do not believe in predestination. We all have free will so anything and everything is possible... There are a lot of outcomes and possibilities.
There is a science for everything, proven or not proven. NASA knows time travel is possible if you go fast enough but nothing they have made can survive that speed and no one inside of it would either, so they can't REALLY prove it yet.

Going into the past is easier logic wise. Going into the future is easier according to science. In space, time goes differently than on earth. You can "travel" to the future but you will never be able into go BACK to your time.
Cause scientifically, we don't know how and we may never know how. I will never say its impossible. Anything can be possible. But the science just may be too complex for us.


I am no conspiracy theorist. I don't go on about what governments do or don't do against us but I do know they hide secrets. (Every government does and to deny that is being naive.) And maybe its for good reasons. They don't want people panicked and they don't want high tech (not talking about time travel here, just any high tech stuff) in the hands of civilians who can use it in really evil ways...
Imagine if a normal person knew how to build high tech weapons cause the governments don't keep it classified... That could be dangerous.
Of course he'd need the parts but still. Its dangerous.

And yah, if we are living an altered past (which I doubt), we wouldn't know, ever.


Ahh ok... Yah, sorry man...

How can you go somewhere that is yet to exist though. If it doesn’t exist yet you can’t go there, especially if you say you don’t believe in predestination

 

[Rocky998]

H

How can you go somewhere that is yet to exist though. If it doesn’t exist yet you can’t go there, especially if you say you don’t believe in predestination

Yah. So you can't hop into a machine and do that. It's impossible. Predestination doesn't exist BUT space time is WAYYY different from our time. You travel light speed to somewhere far far away in the universe, you will be in a complete different time zone.
(Like west coast to east coast but that's small scale).
So then you can technically wait and then come back and it will be a different year possibly.


So it would exist. The times would all exist but to the person going far far away, it would only feel like maybe a few days to a month or two...
(The time waiting all depends on the distance from earth and how far into the future you are "traveling")

 

[JuiceBox52]

Yah. So you can't hop into a machine and do that. It's impossible. Predestination doesn't exist BUT space time is WAYYY different from our time. You travel light speed to somewhere far far away in the universe, you will be in a complete different time zone.
(Like west coast to east coast but that's small scale).
So then you can technically wait and then come back and it will be a different year possibly.


So it would exist. The times would all exist but to the person going far far away, it would only feel like maybe a few days to a month or two...
(The time waiting all depends on the distance from earth and how far into the future you are "traveling")

Going from different time zones isn’t going to different times. Time is the same in all parts of the world at the same time, it’s just the numbers assigned to that time that are different. You’re not going into the future, you’re just changing the numbers assigned to the time that you’re in that hasn’t changed.