Scarlet badis looks like he's dying

[Lcc86]

I have a solo scarlet badis in a planted 7 gallon, he lives by himself and has been in there for about 9 months or so. Yesterday I noticed he was quite pale, almost brown, and seemed to be swimming a bit erratically. He was holding himself diagonally and swimming in tiny spurts.

I tested my parameters pH 7, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate around 5ppm. I had done my routine 50% water change on Friday and I use RO water as my tap water is super hard. Nothing new has been added to the tank since I've had him.

He is fed on live food as he refuses frozen. When I noticed his odd behaviour yesterday I dropped a worm in and he ate it so I thought perhaps it wasn't much to worry about.

This morning I've had to go hunting for him and he is just hiding in the back of tank resting on the gravel. I haven't attempted to feed him or bother him in any way but he really doesn't look good. I've attached a picture of what he used to look like and one of him today, you can barely see him as that was the best I could do without chasing him around the tank and stressing him out for the sake of a picture.

I tried looking up common illnesses for these little guys but came up short. There's no obvious pineconing, no slime or spots, nothing I can really see to explain it.

Should I leave him be and let nature take its course? Should I try and feed him or fast him? Or should I put him out of his misery? I do have clove oil if needed, and tbh he doesn't look great at all considering he's usually super active and busy so I was thinking euthanasia might be kindest.

I can try and get a better picture if needed but just didn't want to stress him out and my tank lights aren't on yet either.

 

[Lcc86]

He's now moved to the top of the tank and is resting there (again terrible picture but he's really hard to capture). I've had a good look at him and can't find any sign of injury or illness. He's just very pale.

 

[AJ356]

He's now moved to the top of the tank and is resting there (again terrible picture but he's really hard to capture). I've had a good look at him and can't find any sign of injury or illness. He's just very pale.

If pictures are hard, then it's best to do a video perhaps

 

[Lcc86]

I managed to get a couple of better pictures. Physically he looks okay apart from being pale, his fins are clamped at times but not fully.

I dropped a worm in for him yesterday and he was interested but didn't eat it. Any advice or guidance would be gratefully received.

 

[Lcc86]

Here's a pic of the whole tank, he seems to spend his time either resting on the pebbles at the bottom, or resting in the elodea at the top, which he never did before.

 

[Colin_T]

Probably an internal infection and there's not much you can do about it. Just keep offering food and hope he eats. Unfortunately once a fish stops eating it's usually bad.

Wipe the inside of the glass down to remove the biolfilm (slimy stuff) and make sure your water quality is good. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every couple of days for a few weeks to make sure there's nothing bad causing this. Make sure any new water is free of chlorine chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter media/ materials in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the lawn outside.

 

[Lcc86]

Thanks Colin, I'm a bit worried it might be TB, he has  some of the symptoms - loss of appetite, lethargy, erratic swimming, change in coloration.

I'll keep trying to feed him and will do the water changes to see if that helps.

A bit gutted as I had a betta in this tank before for a year and wanted something with a longer lifespan as loss is always hard, even when it's "just" a fish, but problems rear their head again.

If he passes/if I get to the point of euthanasia, would you recommend breaking the entire tank down and throwing everything away including filter and sponges just in case it is TB?

 

[Naughts]

I wonder if the internal infection was from food? Is his feed high quality, correctly stored and within date?

 

[Rambomonkey]

You could try offering a small live food feeding and turning lights down to reduce stress, sometimes they bounce back if it’s just a short-term issue.

But given his symptoms and how fragile scarlet badis can be, I’d also prepare for the possibility he won’t recover. If he’s clearly suffering and not engaging at all, clove oil is the right choice

 

[Lcc86]

I wonder if the internal infection was from food? Is his feed high quality, correctly stored and within date?

He has live food from what I believe to be a reputable source so I don't think that was the issue but you never know

 

[Lcc86]

You could try offering a small live food feeding and turning lights down to reduce stress, sometimes they bounce back if it’s just a short-term issue.

But given his symptoms and how fragile scarlet badis can be, I’d also prepare for the possibility he won’t recover. If he’s clearly suffering and not engaging at all, clove oil is the right choice

Unfortunately I found him breathing quite heavily so I've taken the decision to euthanise him as he seems to be suffering. I've noticed a slight curvature to the spine, not major but it adds to my worry that he may have had TB. I've no idea if it's a common disease in these little guys or not, I know some gourami are prone to it but I'm not that knowledgeable on it.

 

[Lcc86]

I think I should completely break this tank down now in light of what's happened. Can anyone recommend some disinfectant that helps TB that can be purchased in the UK? Also I have a mystery snail in the tank, I'm guessing I can't transfer him to another tank as he might carry it with him if it is TB?

 

[Colin_T]

Thanks Colin, I'm a bit worried it might be TB, he has  some of the symptoms - loss of appetite, lethargy, erratic swimming, change in coloration.

A lot of internal issues and even poor water quality can cause those symptoms. Fish TB usually causes fish to swim and act normally, then suddenly bloat up overnight, stop eating, do a stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of that happening. The Mycobacteria destroy the internal organs they are growing on and the fish has internal organ failure, swells up with fluid and dies from organ failure. If it hasn't bloated up there's a possibility it isn't TB.

If he passes/if I get to the point of euthanasia, would you recommend breaking the entire tank down and throwing everything away including filter and sponges just in case it is TB?

I always strip tanks and clean everything if fish die from an unknown cause. Anything plastic can be bleached. Put it in a bucket of water and add household bleach (make it a strong concentration to dissolve the waxy coating on the TB cells). Let it sit for a few hours and then rinse, dry and use. You can use straight bleach and leave the items in it for 10-15 minutes if you want to save time.

Plastic filter sponges can be bleached. The foam rubber sponges will melt in bleach so either boil them or replace them with new ones.

Live plants can be bleached for a couple of minutes. Put them in a bucket with straight bleach and wait 1-2 minutes then remove them and rinse under tap water. Put them back in the bleach for another minute or two and rinse again. This will hopefully kill off anything on the plant but not kill the plant. Soft leaf plants don't tolerate this as well as tough leaf plants. Alternatively throw the plants out and get some new tissue cultured plants.

Gravel cleaners, syphon hoses and buckets can be bleached. Just wipe them out with straight bleach, wait 10-15 minutes then rinse off. repeat the process one more time to make sure there is nothing on them.

Metal handled nets can be boiled. Metal handled nets or metal objects will rust if bleached. Bleach can also damage the netting material. Plastic handled nets can be bleached but the material might break down if the net is exposed to bleach for too long.

Gravel or sand, rocks and wood can be baked in the over at 100C for 30 minutes or boiled for a couple of minutes. Put the items ina large pot of water and put it on the stove. Let it come to the boil, boil for a few minutes then turn it off and leave it to cool down. The stuff in it will be sterile and safe to use.
Mycobacteria dies in a couple of minutes at 60C so getting things to 100C will kill it and anything else on the items.

The glass aquarium can be bleached. Use straight bleach on it, wait a couple of minutes then wash out. Repeat and rinse well, then let it dry for a few days before setting it back up. You don't want to leave bleach in contact with the silicon (glue holding the glass together) for too long because it breaks down the silicon. You can use vinegar instead of bleach and you wipe down the tank with white vinegar (straight out of the bottle) and put paper towels on the glass and silicon. Soak the paper towels with vinegar and let it sit for a day before rinsing off.

*NB* If you use bleach or vinegar, do it outside in a shady place so you don't inhale the fumes and the glass doesn't crack under the sunlight.

*NB* Wear rubber gloves, safety glasses and an apron when using bleach or vinegar to keep it off your skin and out of your eyes.

 

[Colin_T]

I think I should completely break this tank down now in light of what's happened. Can anyone recommend some disinfectant that helps TB that can be purchased in the UK? Also I have a mystery snail in the tank, I'm guessing I can't transfer him to another tank as he might carry it with him if it is TB?

Bent backs/ curved spines can be from a number of things. With TB or tumours the back curves slowly over a period of months as the tumour/ growth pushes against the spine. If it happens overnight, then it's not caused by TB or a tumour.

Snails can carry Fish TB so dump the snail somewhere it can't contaminate a natural waterway. I usually take them outside and put them on concrete, then put a couple of paper towels on them and step on them. rthen hose it off onto the lawn.

Don't pour aquarium water down the drain either if you can help it. Try to pour it on a lawn outside where the sun can shine on it.

 

[Lcc86]

Bent backs/ curved spines can be from a number of things. With TB or tumours the back curves slowly over a period of months as the tumour/ growth pushes against the spine. If it happens overnight, then it's not caused by TB or a tumour.

Snails can carry Fish TB so dump the snail somewhere it can't contaminate a natural waterway. I usually take them outside and put them on concrete, then put a couple of paper towels on them and step on them. rthen hose it off onto the lawn.

Don't pour aquarium water down the drain either if you can help it. Try to pour it on a lawn outside where the sun can shine on it.

Thanks Colin for both of your posts, really helpful. It's reassured me a bit re the TB as his curved spine seemed to appear overnight, all of his symptoms happened really quickly to be honest.

I will need to stock up on bleach! I have white vinegar, I'm not going to do anything right now but will break the tank down following your advice.

Worst bit of the hobby by far is having to euthanise something, even knowing you're probably doing the right thing.