Saffron Sailfins & Black Swords

[winkle]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum, just thought I'd drop a topic in about my pet projects!

I'm currently breeding sailfin mollies, aiming for big fish, fabulous big fins, yellow saffron colour and black eyes. Not doing too badly on this front; I've got a nice big and balshy home-bred female with 2 black eyes and is solid yellow bar a tiny streak of black along the top and bottom edges of her tail and a smudge on one gill. I've also just noticed that one of the very yellow youngsters is developing a gonopodium; he's got bigger black streaks in his tail and flecks of black on the rear half of his body, but I've noticed that the males want to be grubbier

The photo isn't of either of the two fish I just mentioned; its just one of the few photos I took with my phone that isn't a mash of blurry colours!


I'm also having a vague bash at red-finned black swords, but my big red male sword died a couple of months ago and I haven't found a decent replacement yet. He was magnificent; a solid orangey-red all over, even the silvery bits of his eyes were more red than anything else and his fins were deeply coloured; not all washy or mostly transparent. Ho-hum.

So yeah, this is what I'm working on! I just wanted to see if anyone else was breeding similar things and wanted to do some bloodline swaps? I'd love to hear from anyone working with hi-fin red swordtails too; my red-finned black females need a new hubby!

and another random young female sailfin molly, just because everyone loves pictures!

 

[Blubble37]

i have an EXTREMELY golden sailfin male...

 

[winkle]

Awesome! How big has he got so far?

 

[Blubble37]

hes a bit thin atm... but 2.5 inches long and very, erm, frisky lol

 

[winkle]

Updates:

Sailfin Mollies: I got a new male Sailfin Molly in exchange for a whole load of juvenile sailfin mollies at my LFS. His fin isn't as big as my retired main male, but he's got fantastic bright yellow colouration and big blue streaks in his tail. His points for improvement would be his silver eyes (I'm after blacks), he does have some black around the margins of his fins and his sailfin isn't massive. He's only young yet though, his sail might grow more yet!

Swordtails: I went into my LFS today and they'd finally got some more lyretail swords in, and they were all reddish orange! There were several infertile males but I scooped the two fertile males and the two females I could see. One of the males is particuarly nice; nice long lyre points on his tail, his dorsal fin looks like it's leaning towards becoming a hi-fin and even his pelvic fins are elongated... but his man-part anal fin is regular sized and hopefully completely functioning. I'm going to put him with my best red-finned black female as soon as possible. Those Hi-Fin Lyretail Berlin Swordtails of my dreams are getting closer to reality

 

[FishBlast]

Updates:

Sailfin Mollies: I got a new male Sailfin Molly in exchange for a whole load of juvenile sailfin mollies at my LFS. His fin isn't as big as my retired main male, but he's got fantastic bright yellow colouration and big blue streaks in his tail. His points for improvement would be his silver eyes (I'm after blacks), he does have some black around the margins of his fins and his sailfin isn't massive. He's only young yet though, his sail might grow more yet!

Swordtails: I went into my LFS today and they'd finally got some more lyretail swords in, and they were all reddish orange! There were several infertile males but I scooped the two fertile males and the two females I could see. One of the males is particuarly nice; nice long lyre points on his tail, his dorsal fin looks like it's leaning towards becoming a hi-fin and even his pelvic fins are elongated... but his man-part anal fin is regular sized and hopefully completely functioning. I'm going to put him with my best red-finned black female as soon as possible. Those Hi-Fin Lyretail Berlin Swordtails of my dreams are getting closer to reality

I have one red-finned black sword... he doesn't have a lyretail, but his rainbow glitter is awesome. His scales cover yellow, green, purple and blue colors while his fins have the red = rainbow fish
And it seems like I'll have another male similar to him if his son survives. Only that it has a red "cap" or bandana or whatever on his head, making him some kind of calico.

 

[winkle]

I have one red-finned black sword... he doesn't have a lyretail, but his rainbow glitter is awesome. His scales cover yellow, green, purple and blue colors while his fins have the red = rainbow fish
And it seems like I'll have another male similar to him if his son survives. Only that it has a red "cap" or bandana or whatever on his head, making him some kind of calico.

I love the Berlin Blacks, they are just stunning fish! Mine's glitter is mostly blue/green, but I'm hoping to improve it down the line.

I used to have a home bred berlin black male, but he started sulking in the corner one day and was dead the next. I was gutted!

 

[FishBlast]

I have one red-finned black sword... he doesn't have a lyretail, but his rainbow glitter is awesome. His scales cover yellow, green, purple and blue colors while his fins have the red = rainbow fish
And it seems like I'll have another male similar to him if his son survives. Only that it has a red "cap" or bandana or whatever on his head, making him some kind of calico.

I love the Berlin Blacks, they are just stunning fish! Mine's glitter is mostly blue/green, but I'm hoping to improve it down the line.

I used to have a home bred berlin black male, but he started sulking in the corner one day and was dead the next. I was gutted!

The only time I've had black berlins die that way (2 females) was after I bought them from a shop and they didn't get used to my tank water (stupidity on my side for not knowing about filtration).

Other black berlins:
Had a female that died as she couldn't give birth or something (wasn't dropsy, she had her vent open but then had this thing between her fins...) after the autopsy, it turned out she had some babies that still were moving so I put them in a bowl... They only lived for about a week before dying. All were black. -.-
Had a male with clear fins and lots of white on his belly, looked kind of goofy instead of a show fish aspect. But I liked him for the green glitter. He had the stupid idea of exploring a snail shell I put in the tank. Found him dead in it after a water change.
That black berlin female with red fins I bought back in January. She died during the first week, didn't survive the cycling. -.-

So now I only have this cute male and his son left. The other two babies seem to be carrying after their mother's side, so one will be red with black eyes (from his dad's side) and one might either stay white or be a carbon copy of her mother, complete with red eyes.

The son seems to have inherited his mother's "female dog" attitude too. He's sometimes bickering with his siblings, other times he courts them. His dad is pretty scared of the mother, but they do get into nippy fights after every meal, no idea why, as there is enough food and after an hour they settle down and stop showing off their fins / tails.

What would be awesome: a red-eyed black berlin. But I doubt that's possible as it requires lack of melanin.

 

[winkle]

What would be awesome: a red-eyed black berlin. But I doubt that's possible as it requires lack of melanin.

It's funny you should say that...

I was reading a post about swordtails on the American Livebearers Association last night : http/livebearers.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=141&order=ASC&status=&mode=0

"Some albinism is limited to just the eyes, referred to as ocular albinism, some to just the skin and sometimes both, referred to as oculocutaneous albinism. Oculocutaneous albinism actually has four subtypes according to how much pigment is produced in certain areas. A perfect example of lack of melanin in the eyes only is the blood red albinos. Although the melanin production in their skin has not been altered they have inherited a gene that does not make the normal amount of pigment (melanin) in the retina." ~ Aquaholicman (30/05/09)

So, if this is true, and the albinism gene that makes a albino bloodred different from a regular bloodred is specifically albinism of the eyes and not the whole body, then it could theoretically be possible. If your little berlin boy's mother is definately your albino bloodred, then he should be carrying the genes for albino eyes. If you breed him back to his mother, and presuming that it's even possible, you should have a chance of making a red-eyed berlin sword.

It's a really big 'IF', but it would be a fun project for you to try to make if you fancied having a go at it. I'd love to hear the results! I'd have a go myself but I've never seen any albino bloodred swordtails for sale in the UK.

 

[FishBlast]

What would be awesome: a red-eyed black berlin. But I doubt that's possible as it requires lack of melanin.

It's funny you should say that...

I was reading a post about swordtails on the American Livebearers Association last night : http/livebearers.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=141&order=ASC&status=&mode=0

"Some albinism is limited to just the eyes, referred to as ocular albinism, some to just the skin and sometimes both, referred to as oculocutaneous albinism. Oculocutaneous albinism actually has four subtypes according to how much pigment is produced in certain areas. A perfect example of lack of melanin in the eyes only is the blood red albinos. Although the melanin production in their skin has not been altered they have inherited a gene that does not make the normal amount of pigment (melanin) in the retina." ~ Aquaholicman (30/05/09)

So, if this is true, and the albinism gene that makes a albino bloodred different from a regular bloodred is specifically albinism of the eyes and not the whole body, then it could theoretically be possible. If your little berlin boy's mother is definately your albino bloodred, then he should be carrying the genes for albino eyes. If you breed him back to his mother, and presuming that it's even possible, you should have a chance of making a red-eyed berlin sword.

It's a really big 'IF', but it would be a fun project for you to try to make if you fancied having a go at it. I'd love to hear the results! I'd have a go myself but I've never seen any albino bloodred swordtails for sale in the UK.

Well, his eyes are surely black (and big, just like his daddy's). The only red-eyed fry is a (supposedly) female that has shown no coloration so far. Then there's a pinkish fry with black eyes, I believe (s)he will become red like the mother.
Here are their parents:

A better look at the male's scales. He's not 100% glittery, as his tail is mostly black.

And I would try to breed him back but it's up to him if he does and the biggest problem would be that Bee's kind of aggressive. That catfish over there is easily spooked by her if she's cranky.
Red swordtails have ALWAYS been the most aggressive I've ever kept, but blood-reds seriously push it to the limit. Makes me think of her as a Betta by the way she chases the male away.
Most calm seem to be the orange ones, they're neither shy nor aggressive. Blacks are usually shy and weak, but beautiful.

 

[winkle]

My bad, I got overexcited there and misread that your female was an albino bloodred, when she is in fact a regular bloodred.

She's a gorgeous fish though! The best I can get around here are the orangey reds. I'd love a proper bloodred someday!

Or better still an albino bloodred ;D

 

[FishBlast]

My bad, I got overexcited there and misread that your female was an albino bloodred, when she is in fact a regular bloodred.

She's a gorgeous fish though! The best I can get around here are the orangey reds. I'd love a proper bloodred someday!

Or better still an albino bloodred ;D

Uhh what's the difference between albino and regular blood reds? She has red eyes isn't that an albino?

And once you'll get them, you'll tear your hair from your head when they start bickering with the tankmates out of stupid reasons (such as getting hit by a tail by accident, or having their food stolen).

this came up while searching for albino Blood red on google images.

Coloration is exactly like her.

I'm hoping that white fry will be like these:

Not my pics in this post.

 

[winkle]

In that case, disregard that last post of mine!

If she does have the albino, red-coloured eyes like that pic then yes, it might be possible in theory, to breed your baby berlin male to his mother and produce red-eyed berlins. Maybe. Possibly. The only way to know is to try it and find out!

Sorry, her eyes looked quite dark in your own photographs

 

[FishBlast]

In that case, disregard that last post of mine!

If she does have the albino, red-coloured eyes like that pic then yes, it might be possible in theory, to breed your baby berlin male to his mother and produce red-eyed berlins. Maybe. Possibly. The only way to know is to try it and find out!

Sorry, her eyes looked quite dark in your own photographs

Sorry that phone's pic quality is so bad, other phone takes better shots but it's usually at my mom. Wish I had a digi cam -.-

I just hope the fry will survive, can't move them out of the net until they're big enough to at least not fit in the swordtails' mouth. Not sure about the catfish though, they'd be safe if they'd stay on the bottom like my adults do.

 

[swordtail_king83]

hey I have a white lyretail female identical in colour to those 2 white males at the top!!