Rio 300 Sump Plan - Help Please

[mike_danger]

Hi All,

In the next few weeks I am hoping to add a sump to my Rio 300, despite hours of reading im still confused.

I have a spare tank lined up: Going to move my fish etc into there while the build is happening. I have been in contact with a local company who are going to drill and add a sump to the Rio (few) they also sell sumps however I would like to build this myself...for fun and to save money So here is my plan:

I can just fit (with 1cm spare) a 3 ft tank along with my MCE600 into my cabinet. I will be taking out the 2 middle supports and replacing these with 2 x n shape 1" x 1" supports. My plan is basic with 4 compartments:

1st - Inlet / Skimmer
2nd - Refuge (LR or Sand or MM)
3rd - Back to tank (going to use one of the TMC rio pumps)
4th (seperate) - RO top up reservoir (connected to Aquamedic Auto top up unit)

Ok so now the questions (sorry for the amount):

What do you guys think?
Do I have the right amount of dividers, what height do they need ot be?
I am unsure what to put in the refuge, i have been told u can have trouple long term with sand and MM?
With the plumbing, can I just get pipe from B&Q is it hard to put the pipes in, what size etc?
What light do i need for the refuge, is the 'Arcadia ARC-POD 11W' OK?

Many thanks, Michael

 

[AK77]

Hi Mike,

I did the same thing with my Rio 180. Removed the centre support panel and constructed 2 "n-shaped" supports to replace it. I've also got my Red Sea Prism protein skimmer hanging on the side underneath too.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with an auto top-up. You have to fill up the auto top up anyway, so I'd sooner have the additional 12" for a larger refugium section and slightly larger return pump section.

BTW, how much is it costing to have the sump drilled? If its any more than £50 I wouldn't bother drilling the tank and would instead get a Cleartides overflow box for £39.99 + postage.

I'd go for 3 dividers to stop microbubbles, at least in the first section. The dividers should be about an inch apart from one another. Mine are about 3" shorter than the height of the tank. The tallest one is about an inch from the very top of the glass. I couldn't go any higher because of the braces.

In mine I have macro algae to absorb nitrates and phosphates and will be adding some LR rubble if I can lay my hands on some. I was considering miracle mud or live sand too. To provide the algae with light, I purchased an 11w Arcadia Arcpod. It fits nicely on the edge and is hinged so you can move it out the way if necessary. It might be worth investing in 2 of these with a bigger refugium section.

Piping - I used standard 32mm waste pipe from Wickes (usually much cheaper than BnQ) together with a couple of 32mm compression fittings. I did try the pushfit ones, but for some reason they wouldn't fit the 32mm pipe. The return pump is hooked up with 15mm easyfit pipe from Wickes. I also got the 15mm JG speedfittings - which are great and saves soooooo much time and no red hands or fingers trying to tighten up fittings to make them watertight. I also got some JG speedfittings from Ebay at a good price. My return pump is 2500 LPH and was pumping faster than the overflow was draining. I tee'd off from the pump and with a tap valve, I can control how much water is pumped back up to the tank and at the same time, improve the water circulation around the algae.

Wickes also carry the 22mm pipe and JG fittings if you decided to go with those, although with the increased diameter of pipe, it may lower the actual flow rate because the pump has to push a larger volume of water up the pipe.

Be warned though, the 32mm pipe only comes in a 3m length (15mm pipe is 2m length), so if you have a small car, be prepared to grab a saw from the aisles while no staff are looking and cut it in two . My sister picked my piping up for me and some kind builder whipped a saw off the shelf and proceeded to hack it in two.

Here's a few pictures of my 2ft sump since its been tidied up for reference.

HTH,

AK

 

[SkiFletch]

In general I'm wary about using auto-topup systems. They all use float switches or float valves, and these will fail and they will always fail at the worst possible time...

If you really want to invest in auto topup, I'd suggest getting a peristaltic dosing pump and setting that to replace your water. peristaltic dosing pumps are commonly sold in the pool care industry here in the States for dosing chlorine/acid to pools. So you find out that your tank uses 1 gallon of water per day. Set the dosing pump for 1gal/day and it'll slowly drip it in over the course of the whole day. No risk of flooding or other problems.

Just my $0.02

 

[mike_danger]

Hi again,

SkiFletch: I have seen this aquamedic unit on ebay.. http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1 it comes with a peristaltic pump, so would you suggest just using that.

AK77: Thanks for the pictures, very useful. But I was plannign to run the supports front to back in the smae place that the current supports are as I am worried of it all collapsing! I really want an auto top up coz I am lazy and then I will only have ot fill the res up every 2 weeks and also more important it creates a constant top up.

Good news I have spoke to a local company who drill Juwel Tanks for £20! They said they will only drill on the back tho as drilling the bottom will weaken it, is drilling at the back of the tank bad? They also supply pipework etc for £25... few! They also do sump set ups so waiting for them to come back to me with a price. I know it will be more expensive but as this is my first sump I dont mind spenidng more for safety! Looks as if this shop is gonna help me and save alot of stress, just hope they don't screw me with wrong advice! I really like your ideas of taps I am going to go and have a look this afternoon. Your light is the sameone that I want, but am i right in thinking I need 25w for my 1 ft refuge?

I think they are going to put a DSB in the sump with curlerpa, what are the pro cons of this? Should I still go with LR?

Thanks again, Michael

 

[AK77]

Hi Mike,

I'm wondering about the possibility of fitting a durso to the back of the tank. This will virtually eliminate all of the gurgling noises of the water as it goes down the pipes. Once they drill the tank, they will put on a bulkhead to make a watertight seal to connect the pipework to. If you connect an elbow fitting and face it downwards into the water, it will be constantly submerged. Then on the outside of the tank, connect a tee piece. Above that fit the standard durso fittings. Then connect whatever pipework below.

Have a read up on www.dursostandpipes.com

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, while that unit you linked does operate via a peristaltic pump, the problem is it still relies on a float switch for control. What you need is a peristaltic dosing pump that has a controllable flowrate. That way you set how much topoff water to add per day and the pump slowly does it. It won't fail and either flood the tank, nor will it fail and stop adding water to the tank like a float switch eventually will.

As for the drilling/overflows, what AK77 pictured is what's loosely known as a "Calfo" overflow as the design was made popular by Anthony Calfo. Its a very good way to operate a near silent overflow and how many people here in the States do it since most of our tanks have tempered glass bottoms making traditional durso standpipes impossible. Very reliable design there

 

[mike_danger]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the picture AK77, that looks like a great plan, I have been doing some research on dursos and I shld be able to make one. THe only thing I thought is how do I set the water level, do i need ot make a mini weir? I am still waiting on the guy for fish shop to give me a quote...! He was talking about the return tho going over the top of the tank... I dont like this as it could look awful, is there anyway I could get the tank drilled for a return. As also my Korilia has broken for the second time, so I am thinking about (as im spending so much anyway) getting one of the tunze but need ot look into flow.

SkiFletch: I will leave the aquamedic one then, I have seen a dosing one on ebay for £100.00.. more expensive than the aquamedic Or o you have any recomendations? I have seen those AQUATRONICA (but its a bit crazy!)

Also you guys still havnt answers wheather i ahould go for a DSB or LR, I will not go for MM as I understand you need a special sump and it doesnt work with skimmer.

 

[AK77]

Hi Mike,

The water level should be dictated by the positioning of the calfo. It has to be positioned high enough so that if the power goes off, thereby shutting the return pump off and the tank continues to empty to below the level of the calfo outlet, that it doesn't flood the sump. Similarly, the return pump should not be pumping more water than the calfo can drain, otherwise your display tank will overflow. If it does pump to hard (like in my case), fit a blow-off pipe with a tap to control it. (Thanks to Ski for that idea).

The return section on mine comes over the top of the tank, but as its only 15mm piping, it just fits into the notched out section that is already on the rio tanks, so its not like some great big monsterousity of white tube.

With regard to DSB/LR etc, I wouldn't think there was any harm having both in the sump as well as some macro algaes (chaetomorph is good). The DSB would be good for anaerobic bacteria and there wouldnt be any harm placing some live rock rubble on top, or in another section. That's why I wouldnt bother with an auto top up section. You could use that 12" for DSB or LR rubble, and save yourself £100.... all through not being a lazy sod lol.

 

[mike_danger]

Hey,

Sorry for the delay in replying. But after much research plans have all changed. Thank you for your help I feel a like a pain now though as I have changed the plan. After much thought I have decided to not drill my tank due to many fears of it not going right and the likelihood it wouldn’t be a nice job. So I have decided to save up and buy in a years time a...

AquaMedic Anthias!!!!

They look so nice (but very exspensive) so gonna save like made for the next year.

I have however spent a little money on a Tunze 6100 and Multicontroller (can then add another 6100 in a years time for the Anthias). I am pretty excited about getting the Tunze actually as I have heard such good things about them. I have also had a change around of my tank, adding some more LR and of course some corals! Bought my firs Hard Coral (a torchlight?) you can see it in the centre on the 2nd picture it looks amazing!

Anyway here is a picture of before and after, I hope you can see the after ok as only the actinics were on...

BEFORE:

AFTER:

 

[mark7616]

I juat want to point out although I know you decided against it that you should not drill juwel tanks. The guy who builds my tanks for me told me that you should not drill them as the glass is not thick enough to be drilled and the companies that do it are putting peoples houses at risk.

 

[AK77]

I'd agree with that. I was actually surprised that the Juwel tanks are only 6mm glass... well at least on the Rio 180. I don't know if its thicker on the larger models? How thick is the glass on your Rio 300? I'm always paranoid when my nephews come round because I always get a load of hand prints on the glass tank and I'm fearful one will slap the glass in excitement and cause it to break.

 

[SkiFletch]

Tank looks great Mike, well done

 

[SkiFletch]

Double post, yey