Red Robin/honey Gourami.....

[ncjharris]

Hi guys,

Wonder if you could help. Got some gouramis in our tank, who recently seem to have been a little susceptable to illness.
Tank prams are all good (ammonia & nitrite = 0, nitrate = 40/60ppm) and pH is around 7.4.
Its a 40 UK gal tank with the inhabitants being a pair of paradise fish, 5 danios, 3 gouramis, 3 panda cories and a couple of amamo shrimps. Oh and 4 guppies who are in there as a temp measure. Water changes comprise of 20-40% weekly and feeding is regular flakes & pellets and the occasional treat of live food or shelled peas.

A couple of weeks ago, one of the gouramis had what looked like fin rot - his dorsal and caudal fins were ragged and he was hanging around the top of the tank.
In addition to this, he was not very active (though was still feeding) and generally looked not happy. Knowing that fin rot is more of an indicator that something else is wrong we elected to not quarantine him, but keep a closer eye on the inhabitants and treat the tank with King British no 6 (Fin Rot & Fungus) which we have had success with previously. Avoiding using salt due to other inhabitants.

Over the course of the week, the poor chappie didn't look like he was going to get any better. Towards the end of the treatment, he developed white 'fluff' on his body. I thought columaris, but it didn't look much like any columnaris I had seen before. Defo wasn't white spot.
In his final days, his scales gave him the pine cone effect, but he wasn't bloated.
He then died, just over a week after we started treatment.

Anyway, this has started to happen again to another one of our gouramis. As this happened to another one several months ago, and we unsuccesfully treated for an internal bacterial infection and quarentiened that time, I am pretty much at a dead end.

These two pics are the best I could get of the little chap, the white marks have appeared a little earlier than before, but you can see that his tail isn't in the best shape either.

Your comments, and help would be much appriciated guys.
Thanks.

 

[black angel]

Are you sure theres no fighting as it looks like bite marks to me. If a fish is being attacked then this opens them up to other diseases. Just a suggestion though.

 

[ncjharris]

bump

EDIT - BA, just realise what I did was quite rude! Thank you for your reply, but I don't think it is bite marks.

 

[SkiFletch]

Could be Velvet or Dropsy

Do you notice the infected fish flicking or rubbing against any objects?

Edit: I'd quarantine if I were you

 

[WILDER]

Sounds like a bacterial infection as these fish are prone to them, whiteness on the body if not fluffy can be bacterial or parasite, anys signs of laboured breathing or flicking and rubbing against objcts, finrot can be a secondary infection.

 

[sylvia]

I should first mention that it would come as no surprise to me if the root cause of the problems is the paradisefish attacking the honeys. They do not make good companions for smaller gouramies and can get rather nasty as they mature. Males are worse than females though so, if you have females, perhaps it's not them. If you have any nonhoney gouramies in as well, they could also be to blame.

Having said that, though the problem with the fins might have stemmed from nipping or bullying, the white marks on the body don't look like bite marks to me. It could still be stress-related though (as most diseases are) so keep an eye out for any bullying.

To me it does look like an external bacterial infection. You can try treating the whole tank but I would suggest salt baths as well. I would suggest using Interpet's Anti fungus & fin rot (I think it's treatment no. 8 ) as most of the other good ones aren't available in England.

 

[sylvia]

Sorry to double post, forgot to say that if you can isolate into a cycled hospital tank, that's a good idea. I wanted to give you this salt link: http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm

 

[ncjharris]

Thank you all for your replies.

I can quite confidently say that I don't think it is bullying. From reading others posts we seem to have quite a subdued pair of paradise fish, who are only interested in each other. There is also no sign of any kind of rubbing or flicking, so I have ruled out anything parasitic. Infact these usually very active fish have become very placid.

When we introduced 2 gouramis with 2 others in there, there was some 'bullying' going on between them, but this settled down after a week or two.

I didn't really want to isolate for fear of stressing the fish some more, and also if it was a bacterial infection then I could treat the whole tank as one.
Anyhow, today he looked worse and had become almost docile and one of his pals was starting to look a little white too.
So we set up the Q tank, and they are both in that at the mo.


It is interesting that you all mention it looks like a bacterial infection. I personally thought a fungal infection (before I had the replies), given the white 'fluffyness' on the fishes body. The pictures may not show it, but the marks are 'stuck on' to the body, like cotton wool.
They look a lot like columaris to me (although I hope to god not!) and I have started a treatment of anti-fungal medicine - "Aquarium Doctor FC+".

However, I would like to go with the Salt Bath treatment too, as I have previously had some success with this and other ailments.

Would you suggest finishing the current course of medicine (4 days remaining) or undertaking a water change and starting afresh?

 

[WILDER]

Columnaris is a bacteria infection, interpet anti finrot and fungus med and interpet internal bacteria med for columnaris in this country good luck.

http/www.nippyfish.net/flexibacter.html

 

[ncjharris]

To keep you all informed.
Have q'd the two gouramis in a hospital, and started treating with interpet internal antibacterial medication.

Will let you know how this fairs - thanks for reading.

 

[WILDER]

If it's fluffy you will need a finrot med in there as well, as you need both in the uk to treat columnaris.

 

[ncjharris]

To keep you in the loop - we lost one of the little guys this morning, but the other is looking a little better. The course of the medicine is 4 days, but we'll be keeping him in there for around another week, just to make sure.

Thanks for all your comments and help in the meantime.

 

[ncjharris]

Well a sad end to this story.
Despite doing all we could, the final fella died over the weekend.

He was looking fine up until friday, and we had kept up with the medication and performed a water changes as required.
What ever it was that killed the others struck again.

We now have one gourami left, in the main community tank, and we'll be keeping any eye on him.
Originally we obtained them in two batches, so one of the batches could have had weaker fish in - but we'll never know.

Thanks for all your help anyhow.

 

[WILDER]

Sorry for your losses, R.I.P.