Red Devil Looks Very Sick

[LauraFrog]

I was in the LFS today. I'm pretty happy, I've got a new addition to my platy clan AND a CT female betta, a more perfect match for Moonshine in finnage and colour than I had dared to hope I'd ever find. But theyre in a right state. The enormous red devil looks like it's on the way out. It's in a 4 foot tank which is too small for it in my opinion, but it has always seemed happy in there before. I'm pretty sure it's a male, so hell with 'it'.

They ran out of the normal dechlorinator last week and used something else. They then noticed that he was looking very unhappy and distressed, so ASAP did a large water change with the usual brand. He's basically gone downhill. He won't eat anything. He's always a picky eater and won't eat anything except cichlid pellets - refuses frozen and live food including live guppies. So there's no point trying him on something else cause if he won't eat his pellets he won't eat anything. He hasn't touched anything since this started which would be about a week ago. Today he looked much worse. His scales are falling off, the ones that are still attached in the middle of his body are looking awful, you can see the veins standing out on them. There are dots of blood on him, his slime coat is coming away and the rest of his skin looks bright red and inflamed as opposed to the usual gentle pink.

I would hate to see him die, he's a magnificent fish and very intelligent too. I can't give you any more information because it's not my fish. The stuff on him doesn't look like fungus castings or columnaris or something, it's his own slime coat coming off and trailing behind him. He is in a really bad way. Is there anything that anybody can suggest?

 

[WILDER]

He has a severe bacteria infections.
Red blood spots, blood and bruising beneath the skin, and red patches are septicemia, veins standing out.
I wouldn't feed feeder fish they carry deseases, plus there not alot of nutrients in them.
You will need to use antibiotic but it will wipe the benefical bacteria out in your filter.
Does he try to flick and rub just to rule parasites out.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/aeromonas.html

 

[Colin_T]

Get them to check the water quality. Fish produce excess mucous when they are stressed out. And if he isn't eating and they are putting pellets in to try and get him to feed, the pellets will cause more problems. Make sure the tank has been gravel cleaned and the filter is working properly. Increase the aeration/ surface turbulence and water movement. Check the temperature and make sure the heater hasn't failed.
The fish won't starve. A big healthy red devil can go for months without food. And if he isn't moving much, he won't be using much energy.

If the water is fine and the tank is clean then treat with some medication as suggested by Wilder.

 

[LauraFrog]

Thanks for the advice. I was back in there yesterday. He is still alive and looking about the same, more lethargic. I think he might have been slightly bloated considering that he hasn't eaten for over two weeks. He's a bit under a foot long and very well cared for, he was in perfect condition before all this started.

I can't talk them into adding tetracycline. I tried. Whatever is in that dechlorinator, maybe it's gone off because it uncycled the whole tank. I know they followed the directions - maybe it didn't work. They have been changing water and adding bacteria (I can vouch for this one, it actually works) all the time. I might suggest they use filter media from a mature tank, that will do more to re cycle the tank.

I don't know if it's aeromonas. There are no ulcers or anything like that, just open pits where scales have fallen off. He's not rubbing them off, or flicking, they are just coming away. Other than having lost a few more scales, he looks basically the same as he did last week but with the bloating. They think he might be getting better but nobody is really sure. I will try to get a photo if I can.

 

[WILDER]

Do the pits go along the lateral line as it caused by bad water quality.
Taken from this link.
http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm
Head & Lateral Line Erosion



Symptoms:

This disease is marked by open pitted wounds around a fish's head and along the lateral line, as if something is slowly eroding away the flesh. It is very similar to the freshwater disease Hole-In-The-Head. Head & Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) is not fatal in the short run, but if the disease continues to progress, the fish will stop eating and become lethargic. Furthermore, the open wounds caused by HLLE make the fish susceptible to other infections which in turn leads to the further deterioration of its health. These secondary infections are usually the cause of death.



Cause:

Unknown cause, although it is thought that there may be several contributing causes including stray voltage in the aquarium, poor water quality and environmental conditions, high nitrate levels, lack of vitamins and poor nutrition, stress, parasitic infestation (the protozoan Octomita necatrix), or using carbon. Some fish, like Tangs and Surgeonfish, seem to be genetically predisposed to this disease.

The lateral line aids fish in detecting small microvoltages emmited by prey or predators during muscle contraction. The induced voltages from any submerged coil device such as a powerhead, heater, and pump can all add voltage to the tank. This stray voltage can irritate a fish's lateral line if it's constantly stimulating it and eventually lead to erosion of the skin overlying this structure.



Treatment:

Medications do not seem to do much for this disease, although the use of medicated food is recommended to prevent bacterial secondary infections. The best intervention, however, seems to be improving the water quality and supplementing the fish's diet with vitamins, particularly vitamins A, B, D, and E as well as iodine. This can be done several ways. Food can be soaked in water with a drop of liquid multivitamins, such as Selcon or Zoe. Alternatively, fish could be fed fresh or frozen vegetables, such as broccoli, zuchinni, and peas.

The importance of good regular aquarium maintenance cannot be stressed enough. Eliminate any stress-inducing factors. It might also be a good idea to add a grounding probe to the aquarium if you suspect that there may be stray voltage in the aquarium.

 

[LauraFrog]

Used the fish disease diagnosis tools on that site. Sounds to me like bacterial hemorrhagic septicaemia. The septicaemia part seems definite anyway. He looks terrible. I really have to convince them to up the tank with tetracycline. The fish is a foot long (nearly), worth several hundred dollars, hand tame, recognises people who are in there all the time, comes up to the glass to peer at customers...

 

[WILDER]

http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/aeromonas.html

 

[LauraFrog]

The missing and damaged scales are all along both sides, basically in the middle of his body. He's about a foot long - well if a big man turned him upside down and put a hand on his side, that's about the area of the scales falling off. The ones that are left you can see the blood vessels in them. There are no missing or damaged scales on the head or near the tail, belly or back, but the skin there is still reddened and looks sore. I don't think it's aeromonas because there are no ulcers or anything like that. I'll try my best to get a photo if I go in there again.

 

[WILDER]

He sounds awful.
They need to get his water stats sorted out.
Does he flick and rub though they can flick and rub in bad water quality.
I needs treating with an antibiotic.

 

[LauraFrog]

I was in there again yesterday, you are never going to believe this but he's recovering. All theyr'e doing is nonstop water changing. No more scales are flaking off and the places where they've gone are starting to heal. His colour has also settled down. He's still a little bit bloated, lethargic and not eating and he's got finrot now, but you can get rid of finrot and it's not bad, only a few rays involved.

They're starting to hope now that he may recover.

 

[WILDER]

Hope so he still got along way to go.
To say how much he worth can't get my head around why they didn't use antibiotics.
Thanks laura thanks for the update bless him.