Recommend Fish For Special Needs Kid

[riddle box]

hi there
i have a special needs son who loves colours lights water so we took the plunge and got him a 20gallon uk tank as the goldfish didnt really interest him as all basically look the same he is 3years old and the more stimulation he has the better it makes his quality of life plus they look good in living rooms.

we let him pick his dragons ( gold fish oranments) for the tank got some silk type plants and filled it up with h20 now i was going to just leave the tank for 14 days to let the water mature more but the wife went and got some fish for it only 48hrs after everything being switched on.

the water appears very cloudy the tank if about 3 feet long and i cant see to the other side if i look in at its longest point.

do i need to wait a few days to see if it clears or could this be the strt of aproblem resulting in all the fish dying.

also my wife selection of fish remains to be seen literally as she bought a small placostomus 5 red tetras 2 silver sharks and a black knife fish. i am yet to see the knife fish the tetras u cant really see as they seam to hover around in the plants and the sharks just stay at either end of the tank like they dont like each other. so we dont really get to view any fish

what sort of fish could anyone recommend to stock up on and is it possible to have more than 1 placostomus in a tank the fish are that small we cant see anything they are lost they are so small.

the filter is on full blast and there is a small current that swoops down and accross the bottom slightly so would i need to get any fish that like currents or will the current be soft enough not to bother fish like a siameaze fighting fish as they have great colour

sorry if these are simple questions i wasnt expecting fish to be in there this quick and the book i got doesnt give any details on why the water would go cloudy all of a sudden. or would the flouride in drinking water as it was treated when everything powered up show up in the 20 w uv light the water loks clear when the light is switched off.

any help would be great

hope your having a great new year

 

[Tolak]

First of all you need to read up on cycling, as letting the water sit with no fish or other source of ammonia does nothing. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=141944

You are about 1 plec, 2 sharks & 1 black knife beyond what would be recommended for cycling with fish. The general guideline for cycling is 1" of hardy fish per 5 US gallons of water.

The cloudiness, if white as I suspect it is, is free floating nitrifying bacteria that need to attach themselves to the filter media as the tank cycles. Fluoride is not a real problem in aquarium water, chlorine & chloramines are. Hopefully you used a product to neutralize chlorine & chloramines, as chloramines won't gas out as chlorine does.

Expect to see an ammonia spike as the fish produce ammonia as waste. A nitrite spike will follow this, and then you will have nitrates in the water. Ammonia is bad for fish, nitrite is bad but not near as bad as ammonia, and nitrate is acceptable up to a comparatively higher level.

Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate are kept down to a reasonable level with water changes. Once the tank is cycled you shouldn’t have any ammonia & nitrite, nitrate can be removed through weekly water changes. Depending on the levels, ammonia & nitrite can be kept down with water changes done daily or every other day. With your stocking right now I would be doing daily 25% to 50% water changes until the tank is done cycling.


Here’s a little chart to help you understand cycling;

 

[riddle box]

first up thanks.

the cloud does have a white tinge to it so i am a bit more hopeful about that if it is just the filter settle down, and almost no clorine in the drinking water here u can always tell by the smell as areas with chlorine in the water always smell like water from a lake.


so i take it there is to many fish in the tank then, bit surprised at that but i guess shows shops just want the cash and you coming back to keep re stocking. they told the mrs that she could put loads in it. and they recommended bigger fish to go with the small ones we have.

will read up on the cycle thing turns out i need to get a water test kit as i didnt get one in the package.

thanks again for your help.

 

[Tolak]

Chlorine will gas out, basically evaporate over time. This is what you smell. Chloramine, which is a compund made of chlorine & ammonia, is much more stable and won't gas out. This is what most water companies have switched over to, as it is much more stable. This is the reason a dechlorinator is needed, you used to be able to let water sit out overnight years ago and it would be ready to use.

Chlorine & chloramine are great at killing bacteria, they also kill the nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite & nitrite to nitrate. This is the reason dechlorinator is important, especially in a cycling tank with bacteria just starting out. It doesn't take much to kill them.

Sadly enough many shops are more concerned with money than the health & welfare of their fish. This has always bewildered me, as the biggest part of running any business is the return customer. They could make many times that first sale over time by informing a customer correctly to insure a successful experience.

 

[Canis-Equus]

Dont be surprised!

Best bet really if you can is to take back ALL of the fish - fishless cycling is much better and id guess less fraught with thedanger of a small child gutted that a fish has died.

In any case the knife fish and the sharks and possibly the plec are all going to grow FAR too large for that tank.

read up on the links provided on here about fishless cycling and then whilst htats happening im sure we can all help you come up with a suitable list of potential tank mates, who are less likely to grow too big or eat one another, or any of the other myriad ways fish can come up with to upset small children and adult aquarists alike.

Em

 

[sic0198]

Get some guppies, neons tetras and red cherry shrimp.

At petland they have some sort of chemical in a white bottle with blue lettering, says it works in an hour, It will clean your water crystal clear.

 

[Rhiannon]

I would get some guppies, platys and mollies.

They are have beautiful colours, especially the guppies. My 19 month old daughter loves watching them.

When they are colourful they are alot easier to see, so it interests kids alot more.

Goodluck and I think its great you have gone out and brought him something special.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah what everyone else has said about cycling is quite right, i'd advise you to take all your fish back and do a fishless cycle too. i understand it may be hard for your kid to see them go, but they're gonna have to eventually anyway as you need a muchlarger tank for them, it's not the size of them now that the problem but the size they're gonna get to, those fish grow massive and no it is a myth that fish only grow to the size tank that they're in.

to give you an idea of how many fish you should have in your tank eventually there's a basic guideline. It's not infallible, there's loads of excpetions and other factors, but it gives a general idea.

you want 1" of fish for every us gallon of water.

so you need to work out the size of your tank is us gallons, look up the adult size of the fish you want to keep, when you add it together for all your fish it should be the same as the no of us gallons in your tank.

this really only applies to small fish under 2/3", but i really wouldn't recommend anything bigger than that for your tank anyway.

if your wife loves plecs then you can have a bristelnose plec in there, they only get to about 4" I'd stick with just one though.

 

[Sp00ky]

Or, if you have any neighbours that have a disease free tank, you could ask them to clean out their tank and wash their filter media in the water. You could then take the bucket home and wash your filter media in the water. This is called cloning and should speed things up considerably.

You can also get a product called Bacterlife which works very well i found in the early days of me setting up my first tanks.

Also, how is your sons eyesight? there would be little point in getting him small fish like tetras and guppys if he has poor eyesight. I know thats a personal question, but just thinking about saving you time and money on buying small fish if he cant really see them.

 

[14gtr14]

really good stuff there riddlebox already posted, but I thought I'd just let you know how big you silver sharks, knifefish and plec'll grow!

silver sharks: ~12"
black knifefish: 12"- 24"
plec ( if just a comon plec): 12"- 18"

...so you really do want to take them back pretty soon.

Personally i would take them all back and do a fishless cycle. It works really well and there is a much smaller chance of fish dying. It also gives you a couple of weeks to research the fish you want and set up the tank as you would like.

good luck


greg

 

[raptorrex]

hi there
i have a special needs son who loves colours lights water so we took the plunge and got him a 20gallon uk tank as the goldfish didnt really interest him as all basically look the same he is 3years old and the more stimulation he has the better it makes his quality of life plus they look good in living rooms.

we let him pick his dragons ( gold fish oranments) for the tank got some silk type plants and filled it up with h20 now i was going to just leave the tank for 14 days to let the water mature more but the wife went and got some fish for it only 48hrs after everything being switched on.

the water appears very cloudy the tank if about 3 feet long and i cant see to the other side if i look in at its longest point.

do i need to wait a few days to see if it clears or could this be the strt of aproblem resulting in all the fish dying.

also my wife selection of fish remains to be seen literally as she bought a small placostomus 5 red tetras 2 silver sharks and a black knife fish. i am yet to see the knife fish the tetras u cant really see as they seam to hover around in the plants and the sharks just stay at either end of the tank like they dont like each other. so we dont really get to view any fish

what sort of fish could anyone recommend to stock up on and is it possible to have more than 1 placostomus in a tank the fish are that small we cant see anything they are lost they are so small.

the filter is on full blast and there is a small current that swoops down and accross the bottom slightly so would i need to get any fish that like currents or will the current be soft enough not to bother fish like a siameaze fighting fish as they have great colour

sorry if these are simple questions i wasnt expecting fish to be in there this quick and the book i got doesnt give any details on why the water would go cloudy all of a sudden. or would the flouride in drinking water as it was treated when everything powered up show up in the 20 w uv light the water loks clear when the light is switched off.

any help would be great

hope your having a great new year

where you live riddle box? its just possible we may have a member, close enough to donate some media to help you on!

whatever keep going. M my 5 year old CDLS kid, loves the tank! . bin a major reason she stands up so much now. it helps us too.

 

[riddle box]

some really good advice there thanks guys

yeah animals and pets have a huge part to play with any kids the only reason mine can walk is the dog we got him he went from dragging himself round the living room after her all the way to walking using her as a support now he tears round like a normal kid. he was found to be blind in one eye from a brain hemorrage but it turned out it was just his brain not controlling the eye after waering a patch for about 2 years now he has pretty good vision in both eyes so fish that are really bright like guppies are going to be great for him



i didnt realise that they would get so big. shops here in the uk dont take returns after a 48hr period basically ur fish are insured for that time and if they live after that timescale then it is the owners fault they have died. ( not very good if they have a desease that takes a week or so to kill all the fish in the tank huh )


i bought this green filter that fits inside the filter that is meant to trap phosphate nitrite and nitrate and works for upto 2 months. hopefully this will help keep the tank and fish running a bit better. for these 3 levels


so just need something to help with the amonia is amonia in water the same as in real life smell wise at the moment there is no hint of this smell and i have a really good sence of smell. dont worry i will get something to test the water my main concern is getting through this and keeping everything happy in the process


got a feeling setting up a spread sheet so i can view everything graphically will be best do any of you find spikes happen within a time frame or is it a completly random event. given a 3-4 day variance it should be possible to forecast when the tank is due to go through some changes. thats if it happens like that.


Is it worth getting tank water from ebay as a few people in the uk are selling tank water to help establish the tank ???


lol i didnt know there was going to be this many factors in this but am learning fast. if only the wife had waited

given that we have fish that can grow to sizes like that it might be worth getting a larger tank next year just for them say double the size of the one we have. or a wider one so it has much more volume.


i will take a few pics tonight so u can see it and again thanks for your help on this.




If it aint got a learning curve then it is too easy

 

[catxx]

if you want to keep the current fish, the fish such as guppies won't be able to go in. the knife fish will inhale them once he's bigger. as will any other small fish he sees. (including your tetras)

i'm pretty sure most uk stores will take back returns if you've been sold fish in error and can't keep them healthy. just put your foot down as they were in the wrong and shouldn't have sold you too-larger fish to go into a brand new uncycled tank. a GOOD lfs employee would know about this.

for now do daily 20% water changes and get a master test kit. i wouldn't buy water from ebay, too expensive! how would they post that exactly?! and definately invest in a dechlorinater. being over-precautious is better than crossing fingers and hoping for the best!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i didnt realise that they would get so big. shops here in the uk dont take returns after a 48hr period basically ur fish are insured for that time and if they live after that timescale then it is the owners fault they have died. ( not very good if they have a desease that takes a week or so to kill all the fish in the tank huh )

rubbish, they should take them back, loads around by us do, put your foot down with the owners, you've been mis-sold something completely unsuitable you have every right to return them, you may not get a full refund, it'll probably be store credit too, but it's better than nothing and means you won't have to get a massive tank for these fish.

i bought this green filter that fits inside the filter that is meant to trap phosphate nitrite and nitrate and works for upto 2 months. hopefully this will help keep the tank and fish running a bit better. for these 3 levels

yeah that'll be rowaphos or something along those lines, they're pretty good, not an essential but every little helps!

so just need something to help with the amonia is amonia in water the same as in real life smell wise at the moment there is no hint of this smell and i have a really good sence of smell. dont worry i will get something to test the water my main concern is getting through this and keeping everything happy in the process

yup, when your fishless cycling a tank it stinks!!

got a feeling setting up a spread sheet so i can view everything graphically will be best do any of you find spikes happen within a time frame or is it a completly random event. given a 3-4 day variance it should be possible to forecast when the tank is due to go through some changes. thats if it happens like that.

whatever works for you, it's always good to keep a record of your test results, as if your not sure whats happening just telling us that days results is good, but give us a list of your results for the last week or so will give us a much better picture! there's no set time frame, it's dependant on a massive number of factors so can be really tricky to say. however if you've got teh basic theory that you get the ammonia spike then nitrite spike you should be able to track the speed of your cycle and make a reasonable prediction after a couple of days results are in.

Is it worth getting tank water from ebay as a few people in the uk are selling tank water to help establish the tank ???

no, you need the bacteria that live in the filter, they're sessile so don't live free swimming in the water but in things like the gravel and most in the filter sponges etc, check out the beginner forum here, there's a pinned topic with members willing to donate filter media, hopefully someone lives near by and can help you out. this will make an enormous difference to things


lol i didnt know there was going to be this many factors in this but am learning fast. if only the wife had waited

it's easy once you get the hang of it, your here and learning so your doing the best possible thing

given that we have fish that can grow to sizes like that it might be worth getting a larger tank next year just for them say double the size of the one we have. or a wider one so it has much more volume.

if you can't return them then yes maybe, however to give you an idea of the size tank your gonna need, the silver sharks wanna be kept in a group of 6+ minimum tank size for 6 big fish like that, around 100 gallons, 1 common plec will need the same..... for 5 commons i'd say you need 3-400gallons...... then the clown knife gets even bigger still!! your gonna need an absolutely whopping tank to care for all these fish properly.


i will take a few pics tonight so u can see it and again thanks for your help on this.

can't wait to see them, and no probs!

 

[annka5]

I reckon fish for your child is a great idea. It really is unfortunate that the shop sold your wife such unsuitable ones though - the problem is that, though looking tiny and making the tank seem empty now, they will grow.... Also, as the water is bad (it will have ammonia in it now even if you can't smell it from the water - the amounts needed to kill fish are realtively small, and you're very unlikely to be able to smell such small amounts from the water) the fish will feel pretty poorly so be less active and not so interesting to watch.
If you really can't return or otherwise rehome them then a bigger tank would be the best option. However, you need to get the tank cycled without them dying first...! If you can get some filter media from someone elses established tank, that would be best. Try the fish shop, or aquarist society, or (depending how you feel about posting personal details on internet) try the buy/sell/swap board - you'll need to get it from the donor's tank to yours in an hour or so or the filter bacteria will start to die.
The water shouldn't have any significant population of the nitrifying bacteria, so used tank water will not help you.
In the meantime, you'll need to do frequent - like daily - water changes of around 20% of the tanks volume to help dilute the amonia and nitrites.
The time taken to cycle a tank varies with the exact water chemistry (acidity, hardness, etc etc) and temperature.
It will end up being a great hobby for your kid, and for you no doubt - you just need to stick with it and ride out the bumpy first few weeks.