Rant About Some Members On This Forum And Stocking

[DiscusKeeper403]

Personally, I take advice from anyone, I think through the advice I get, see what it would look like and if it looks wrong, I don't do it, if it sounds right, I will. I think their's two different fishkeepers. People who keep fish and people who care for fish, theres a difference. My brother has kept fish for 10 years or so, let me tell you his stocking.
30 Gallon tank
1 x BGK
1 x Common Plec
1 x Royal Plec
1 x Gold Nugget Plec
5 x Firemouths
2 x Bala Sharks
3 x Killifish
3 x Guppys
2 x GSP (Green Spot Puffer)
Before you complain at me, I tell him all the time he just calls me a fish freak and says they are only fish, enjoy them while you have them. Don't even bother having a go at me, because quite simply I will just tell you where to go, i'm sorry.

Neal

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

I agree Teelie and I was not attacking your statement, only trying to help reduce the chances that someone will read this thread and get the wrong idea on who to seek for help. In fact, i really think the basic idea behind this thread is a good one, but I wish it was a little more thourough in its approach since some people could get offended by it.

Without going into spacifics, I read a post the other day on a forum that asked about a problem dealing with super high nitrates, even the the tank was supposed to be cycled. I believe the tank was 55 gallons and the owner had two 'medium sized' Oscars and a large (15 inches I believe) pleco. The owner of this tank would absolutely not accept the fact that these 3 fish were the problem since they fell into the 'inch per gallon' rule for the time being (he or she did note that they realized in time, they would need a larger tank). Long story short, this is why I do not like the rule because it leads some beginners down the wrong path. This guy or gal actually loved the looks of the pleco and so he bought it this large and of course, the oscars just grew like crazy but he or she stated that the only "poop" that was in the tank was from the pleco and only right after he or she fed it. Most of us would know that this is going to be an issue and this is a good example of why three fish in a 55 gallon tank is actually overstocking, even with only 30 or less inches of fish.

Now, I know that there is the "rule behind the rule" of only a three inch fish as wide as whatever, but how do beginners know this? Should someone NOT say that it is wrong to keep this tank stocked this way unless you are willing to do lots of work in water changing and filtration? How do you explain this to someone who doesnt exactly realize that a fish tank is more than a peice of furniture that you feed and dust once in a while? To top it all off, it doesnt really take an expert of a person with medium experience to know all of this...all it takes is a beginner who just went through the same problem and learned a little bit from someone who informed them of the overstocking problem and why it is overstocking.

For me, I think this 'rant' is just too 'situational' and not broad enough to pin point as a problem on a forum. That is just my opinon and nothing more. I would like to rant about people who never ask for water parameters and give out pin-point advice or those who do not ask about feeding habits and miss a really easily identified problem with that. I usually do not say any of these opinions openly however since they are few and far between and I feel I can be the difference in this situation to help out a little bit. Most of the time, I get just as 'stumped' as the person asking the question, but sometimes I can help out and that is why it is worth my time to be on this forum or any other for that matter.

Please dont label me as the 'bad guy' here as I am not trying to be. I just thought this subject could use a bit of looking at from the 'devil's advocate's' point of view.

 

[Mr.September15]

I was wrong! I thought they close things like this. Hmm, Although I can make this get closed

 

[QuotheRaven]

Stocking is very trial and error one fish that people are told is aggressive and will kill anything in site so don't put it in that tank if put in that tank may be the opposite. Stocking is trial and error and common sense you really wouldn't put a fully grown oscar in a 20 Gallon if you have even a couple of months experience. Stocking problems are usually attributed to New fish keepers given bad advice or not taking the advice they have been given however people should not be flamed or attacked for asking for advice on stocking regardless if their stock is overstocked or a bad mix

My 2 cents

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Again, I also agree Raven and would definetly encourage any question to be asked. How else can we learn? It is certainly not the fault of beginners who see cool bala sharks in nearly every LFS and buy some while either given bad advice or by not seeing the 'adult length' posted in teeny tiny print below the fish's name tag. I would be leaning towards the opinion that LFS shouldnt stock or make so available such potentially large fish to the common fish keeper without being held accountable for not informing people of stocking issues. It really makes me mad to see a person walk out of an LFS with a tank in one hand and fish in another, but that is another 'rant' topic, I am sure. I also hear so many myths about the growth 'stunting' of fish only being able to grow as large as the tank allows. I mean come on, do your feet stop growing because you cant afford a new pair of shoes?

However, I think my point here is that people who try to give some advice on stocking problems also shouldnt be 'ranted' against unless it is some crazy advice. Case in point, my cichlid tank is currently stocked with two very aggressive species and one low aggression species (auratus and kennyi versus yellow labs). I cannot count how many times I was told to quickly seperate this fish and for a beginner, I would also give somewhat of the same advice. As at least a person with medium experience and knowledge as well as internet access, I found a way to keep all these fish happy and healthy. Point being, if I had the chance, I would still thank the people who told me to run away from this tank in the begining because while I did get discouraged a bit, I took more time to think over my issues and research them by asking more and more questions on forums like this.

Simply put, a forum shouldnt be a good place to put people down but a good place to express ideas, opinions, and information. If you want to tell someone that they are doing something wrong, you should have some ammo (info or experience) to back it up.

 

[LadyMacca1]

I'm innocent!

 

[Tolak]

What should be remembered is to take into account how many years and how much experience the person(s) giving the advice are. I'd rather take advice from someone who has successfully raised a handful of fish for 20 years over someone who has raised hundreds over 2 or 3 years.

Ouch. I'll try not to take that too personally, seeing as I've raised several thousand fish over the last few years.

It's not that I'd think your advice was wrong or impractical, but you wouldn't have the experience of someone who's been doing it for longer than some of our members have been alive. And usually those who've kept 1,000's of fish over a short period of time successfully have similar enough opinions as the old hands at it anyways.

Haha, made ya look! I was only kidding, I can't see any way anyone could really get me burned up on the internet, after all, it's only words. Sometimes topics like this get so heated & serious, folks need to lighten up a bit.

As far as years of experience vs. quantity of fish kept, you are missing a key component; Influence of other aquarists. Tommy hit on a good point, the person who spends hours of Internet research concerning aquatics. There is also non-internet based knowledge.

I can't urge anyone strongly enough to join a local aquatics club. There is so much knowledge out there in the heads of old timers who can't figure out a computer. Breeding fish, raising show winning fish, automated systems, so many things that I talk about with these guys that I wish I had the time & resources to do. Damage control from a tank going bad is a no brainer to these folks, and they are so willing to sit around & share knowledge. My setup is a dinky one compared to what many of these guys have; I'm considered one of the youngsters. You will learn more in your first year than you have in the last 5 years. Stocking will come as natural as walking; there are so many ideas out there that are way beyond stocking.

 

[Griz]

There's a common thread in these threads.

There's a certain amount of risk in participating in a discussion with 20,935 (at last count) people. It is entirely possible that a few of them may disagree with you. Some may respond in a way that is misunderstood. A few of them may be in a bad mood that day. Some might just not be very nice people to begin with. And of course theres' the possibility that some might just be wrong in their opinions. Such are the risks of engaging in conversations with people from all over the world. There is however a huge upside that far outweighs these risks. I'm not sure if it's a maturity thing or simply being oversensitive. Maybe it'a a bit of both. I know we are all passionate about the hobby but keep some perspective, don't take things too seriously and for crying out loud don't get upset about a few words on a computer monitor.

 

[dwarfgourami]

I rarely look at a person's age, assuming it's even listed unless they have such bad grammar or advice they couldn't be much older than a teenager. No matter how old someone is, if they can't use basic grammar (I'm no grammar Nazi so it has to be pretty bad) then I have to wonder what kind of care they give their fish.

Can I just point out that this is an international forum; we do not all have English as our first language. I myself emigrated to the UK at the age of 29. Somebody who writes poor English may have exellent skills in three or four other languages- and of course in fishkeeping.

 

[vancouver]

I didn't know for a few years of fishkeeping that I was supposed to be changing water... nobody ever told me.. I didn't have the internet, didn't research.. just assumed the fish store people knew what they were talking about .. thousands of dollars worth of fish later someone finally asked me how often do you change water... when I told them I only top it up when it evaporates they told me I need to change it..

I wouldn't have considered myself a beginner then, but I was going by what the fish store told me.

As for the stocking factor, if you're talking to a beginner, it would make more sense for them to understock a tank so they can figure out if they can handle fishkeeping at an easy level, before diving right into an overstocked tank.

 

[andywg]

The point about experience over knowledge is a bit of a bad one to follow.

There are plenty of people who have kept marine fish alive for years who see no need to upgrade past an Under Gravel Filter. Someone who is newer will use Live Rock. There is no question over which is the better filtration system, but if you aare going for experience over knowledge then you will end up with the lesser system.

Technology in fishkeeping is moving on all the time. If I had followed the experience over knowledge I would have ignored the advice on this forum when I got my first 6 foot tank and left it UGF rather than drilling it and installing a sump filtration. I know which is better for the fish.