Rant About Some Members On This Forum And Stocking

[Mr.September15]

This is soo getting closed.

 

[LadyMacca1]

Oh here we go again, another thread for people to flame in

Rule of thumb: If you haven't something nice to say.. DONT SAY IT AT ALL!

 

[dwarfgourami]

I think we may safely assume that the people asking stocking advice are the people who do not have experience of their own to build on. I mean, when did you last see CFC asking me if he could keep his great big monster fish in his great big monster tanks? Or when did you see me trying to stop him. Most people ask advice about setting up their first tank, and after that they learn from experience. But if people get too annoyed with us dealing out basic newbie advice, we would have to start telling newbies to learn from trial and error. The trial will be that suffered by their fish. I would personally rather run the risk of seeming a little over-conservative, a little cautious, seeing that the more inexperience you are, the longer it will be before you realise that your fish are struggling, so the more leeway you need to have.

One thing does annoy me though (hold onto your hat folks!) and that is that stupid example of keeping a 10-inch oscar that ALWAYS comes up when people are slagging off the 1 inch rule. When did you ever see anyone invoke this rule when advising people on their oscar keeping? Exactly. So where is the point of this example- it describes a situation that is not actually happening.

I am personally using the 1 inch rule less and less, but what I do like about it is that it encourages conservate stocking. All the other rules you see (surface area, thinkfish community creator) you end up with a lot more fish in your tanks- and that IMO is something you should leave for later in your fishkeeping career, for when the tank is mature and you have enough experience to pick up on signs of trouble at an early stage.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

interesting to see that the complaints about "friction" showed up before any conflicts did...

i'd like to second dwarfgourami's opinion, especially with regards to conservative stocking. i know that i'm a busy college student who spends too much time on the internet--i'm not doing water changes more than once a week. so i plant my tanks and try to keep low stock levels. the quickest, easiest tool for me to prevent myself from buying any more fish? thinking "ok, so i have x, y and z inches of fish here and p, q, and r inches there, so i really don't have room for this." makes most of my tanks look pretty empty but its just me watching, so i don't care

 

[Nevergone815]

I am personally using the 1 inch rule less and less, but what I do like about it is that it encourages conservate stocking. All the other rules you see (surface area, thinkfish community creator) you end up with a lot more fish in your tanks- and that IMO is something you should leave for later in your fishkeeping career, for when the tank is mature and you have enough experience to pick up on signs of trouble at an early stage.

i agree with this. i personally needed to be told the "one inch per gallon guideline" (to add to pn's post earlier ). i was lucky though and people explained to me that with the filtration i had and the "basic" newbie cleaning schedule, and the fact that it applies to slim bodied fish under 5". but otherwise, i would've put that cool litle convict into a 10 gallon tank.

i was advised to start with common livebearers and maybe some neons, and to watch it from there. i went against the advice to understock and what happened... i battled illness and spent more money in meds, because my tank wasn't properly cycled and all that. i learned from that mistake.

i actually tell the newer users my personal experience ot explain that the "older" members aren't being jerks, but just trying to help you. they tried helping me, i went fish happy and overstocked my tank and had a headache that actually almost saw me giving up on the hobby. i lost all my fish to illness, i had to tear down the tank and start from scratch... i didn't want to, but i did for some strange reason. this time i took the advice given to me. now i have a 10, 20 and 55 gallon tank set up, along with a couple of betta tanks. the advice of he other users helped me. its a shame that i was to arrogant not to listen.

so my contribution to this thread is... to all new fishkeepers, stock conservatively until you gain the proper experience and space to provide the "right" conditions for trying a more heavily stocked tank. listen to the advice given to you, but do what is best for your fish. but mostof all ALWAYS consider what the other membrs have said. if a majority of them advise you not to get another fish, or that tpe of fish at that time, then there's probaby a good reason why. if you don't understand why, ask. the people advising you will explain it to you. then you will have a more pleasant experience adn not go into a financial hole treating for illness or doing 50% daily water changes to lower ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes. listen, take in the advice, make a decision and consider the advice when you do so.

that's my contribution to this thread... hopefully it stays civil so it doesn't get closed as it would be a good thread for a new fishkeeper to read to understand why we recommend certain things for them, and not get as upset when we advise them otherwise.

 

[jarmado]

there is an existing overstock patrol here in TFF.
the members do not know that they are in it or pretend not to know it.

 

[SamUK]

there is an existing overstock patrol here in TFF.
the members do not know that they are in it or pretend not to know it.

*looks left and then right*

whose that then?

 

[jarmado]

there is an existing overstock patrol here in TFF.
the members do not know that they are in it or pretend not to know it.

*looks left and then right*

whose that then?

one down

 

[Inchworm]

there is an existing overstock patrol here in TFF.
the members do not know that they are in it or pretend not to know it.

*looks left and then right*

whose that then?

And thoughtless, smart alecky members are not appreciated!

This has been an excellent thread so far. Many of the posters are well respected members who have helped countless newbies by speaking from their years of experience and the debate is covering some important issues about the subject.

It's in no danger of being closed.

 

[SamUK]

there is an existing overstock patrol here in TFF.
the members do not know that they are in it or pretend not to know it.

*looks left and then right*

whose that then?

And thoughtless, smart alecky members are not appreciated!

This has been an excellent thread so far. Many of the posters are well respected members who have helped countless newbies by speaking from their years of experience and the debate is covering some important issues about the subject.

It's in no danger of being closed.

when am i thoughtless or do i act smart alecky??

thats not what ijay said anyway.

i admit i tell people when there keeping fish in a bad way but i dont see how that makes ME thoughtless??

 

[Teelie]

What should be remembered is to take into account how many years and how much experience the person(s) giving the advice are. I'd rather take advice from someone who has successfully raised a handful of fish for 20 years over someone who has raised hundreds over 2 or 3 years.

Ouch. I'll try not to take that too personally, seeing as I've raised several thousand fish over the last few years.

It's not that I'd think your advice was wrong or impractical, but you wouldn't have the experience of someone who's been doing it for longer than some of our members have been alive. And usually those who've kept 1,000's of fish over a short period of time successfully have similar enough opinions as the old hands at it anyways.

 

[chibi]

I guess the thing to think about is it's better to understock than overstock. I personally have never done a 10% water change... it's usually 40%-50% because I have such a big siphon. 10% does seem like a very low about of water to change. :\

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Well, I dont know what to say...this is the first 'rant' thread I have joined in on and I just wanted to point out that stocking is just not a cut and dry issue and no rule can fully cover every situation.

I will say, however, that you can not judge someone's advice based upon his or her age or years in the hobby. Shoot, I could say I have been keeping fish for 20 years myself since I have always had a guppy, gourami, or betta fish for most of that time. I can tell you that two years ago, I would have no advice to give anyone other than 'put some water in and see what happens!'.

I think you should not over look those people who dedicate themselves to the hobby enough to research and read a lot and to 'disqualify' them from giving advice based upon years of 'service' then you could be passing up some pretty good info.

Keep in mind that I am trying to walk the line here with you and I am not picking any sides, but I wonder why no one would go against the opinion of only getting advice from 'old timers'. For all you know, I could be a 25 year old guy holding a Phd in Marine Biology (which I am not, by the way). Or I could just be a guy who loves fish enough to spend hours on the internet reading through threads and following links to learn as much as I can. In a little over a year, I have had most every type of tank other than freshwater planted tank and I am working on that now. I think I have a lot of good info to offer and would hope that I am not wasting my time because people read my age before they read my posts.

Lastly, this thread started out as a 'rant' against people who say 6 platties, a rainbow shark and a pleco are too many fish for a 30 gallon (or something like that). Come on, how many times have you heard that advice and some one already brought up the fact that if you saw this advice, why wouldnt you chime in and challenge that person. That is the behavior that makes these forums a good source of information; you get to hear advice and info from all sorts of people rather than the one guy with a tattoo on his neck at the LFS.

 

[Teelie]

What I'm talking about are people who've done it for years successfully. People who've kept a fish for years and years. I doubt anyone would listen to someone who has kept fish 20 years but never kept one alive more than 6 months. At the same time, someone who keeps hundreds of them in a short time period successfully might not have hit that point where their system goes crashing down and they lose everything.

Or they might have done what any responsible pet keeper does and researched the hell out of their fish and know what they're doing. I usually side on years of positive experience to number of fish kept regardless of their age.

I rarely look at a person's age, assuming it's even listed unless they have such bad grammar or advice they couldn't be much older than a teenager. No matter how old someone is, if they can't use basic grammar (I'm no grammar Nazi so it has to be pretty bad) then I have to wonder what kind of care they give their fish.

I know there are members here older than me by 20-30 years yet have kept fish for less time than I have and probably know a lot less than the average 15-20 year old.

 

[Neal]

Personally, I take advice from anyone, I think through the advice I get, see what it would look like and if it looks wrong, I don't do it, if it sounds right, I will. I think their's two different fishkeepers. People who keep fish and people who care for fish, theres a difference. My brother has kept fish for 10 years or so, let me tell you his stocking.
30 Gallon tank
1 x BGK
1 x Common Plec
1 x Royal Plec
1 x Gold Nugget Plec
5 x Firemouths
2 x Bala Sharks
3 x Killifish
3 x Guppys
2 x GSP (Green Spot Puffer)
Before you complain at me, I tell him all the time he just calls me a fish freak and says they are only fish, enjoy them while you have them. Don't even bother having a go at me, because quite simply I will just tell you where to go, i'm sorry.

Neal