Rams

[mrs_darlington]

I posted this in tropical emergencies and was told it was in the wrong place to receive any advice so hope someone can help me.

I recently got 1 x european ram and 1 x golden ram.

I am aware they should be in pairs but that was all that was available at the time so.....

I have since got another golden ram but the 2 together are not getting on.

I have tried removing both from the tank rearranging it and putting fish back..... they still sit at opposite ends of the tank so tonight I have placed both in a different tank on their own but still will not go near each other except to do a funny 69 dance??

How can I get them to like each other??

 

[DiscusAngel]

Can you get pics of both as it sounds like you have males.

Edit:

This is how you sex

The mature males will have very extended first few rays of the dorsal. The mature females will be smaller than males and their bellies turn deep red when they are in the spawning mood.

 

[mrs_darlington]

o.k, I have tried taking pics but they are soo rubbish, the larger of the two is definately a boy he also has a rosy nose, dont know if that means anything, and on closer inspection the smaller is a boy too, so there is my problem!

 

[DiscusAngel]

no nothing to do with colours basically look to see if the have mohekans like at the start of the dorsal fin(the fin on the top) see if there is a black spikey bit if here is then male if its blac not spikey or black bit nd not spikey then there female. personally id take back them both wait till they get orders in and watch the tank closley see which 2 get on well and just get one pair.

Edit: this is a male ram

an here is both TOP is FEMALE bottom is MALE

 

[mrs_darlington]

I am just waiting for the place to open where I got them from and will hpone them, they both definately have the spikey bit so will see if I can return them both. How about getting a friend for my european, would I ever manage it?? He looks male too.

 

[KathyM]

There is a much easier way to sex rams. The "mohican" isn't really very accurate, our old female had the same dorsal fin as the male, although males tend to have longer tail filaments. A female will have a visible ovipositor on her underside. Here are some pics to help:

Female Bolivian Ram - notice her ovipositor.

Male left, female behind and to the right. Male has longer tail filaments, and you can just make out the female's ovipositor.

 

[Doryfan]

Really sorry to hijack this thread but I was wondering myself if I had 2 male rams (bolivian). I'm sure one is a male and was wondering about the other as although sometimes they'll hang out together peacefully, the rest of the time the boy is chasing the other into the plants and won't let 'her' out.

KathyM - those last pics are fab - I might have 1 of each after all! - I think I can see an ovipositor on the 'girl' and her dorsal fin is similar to your pic. Does the ovipositor get more prominent as she gets older?

Have another ram question but will start a new thread so don't hijack this one any more

Many thanks - and sorry again!
jen

ps I know that having 1 of each won't necessarily mean they pair up but what I was hoping that any aggression would be minimal as it is now, just occasional chasing.

 

[DiscusAngel]

O KathyM, whenever ive kept rams and bred them. ive always been able to sex them that wa 9 times out of 10 im right. i can see how you do it. and looks a great way to sex rams.

anyway, Mrs_Darlington, if i was you. Take both rams ack wait for a new delivery get them to fone you and then go watch to pair off. as they will live happy.

 

[KathyM]

I'm not sure if the ovipositor becomes more prominent with age (mine were adults when I bought them), although it certainly makes sense.

 

[DiscusAngel]

Ya, well done kathy id say thats the most best way of sexing. i rehomed my Rams they were in love for years. but they started to get abit aggressive with my discus so they got rehomed.

 

[mrs_darlington]

Thanks for all the replies, I have phoned the shop and they will take all 3 back and let me watch the new stock and pick some that get on - so that is good news. I have had another look at the rams and neither have the ovipositor.

Also the shop said just return one gold ram and keep the other as the european and gold will pair up- is this utter rubbish??

No worries re hi-jacking we are all on about Rams!

 

[DiscusAngel]

you said you have 2? anyway if you have 3? say there all not gettng along can i bring all three back and get 1 pair of the same Type eg bolivian.

 

[mrs_darlington]

Yes I have 3. 1 x european and 2 x gold. I could only get one of each colour originally - knowing I would have to get one more each to make 2 pairs.

unfortunately the lfs only got new stock a week after the originals were brought which is when the problems started.
I have asked to take all 3 back and get 2 pairs instead.

 

[thegnu]

i haven't kept golds or Bolivians, only blues and i only keep one pair in my 400L tank. there is other fish with them, but no other rams and all the other fish like the same water and high temps which rams like. i keep the temp at 84F. they should not be kept below 80F. i have found that if kept in only one pair there is nothing to get in the way of their relationship. kept in any other number and there is trouble but they are my favorite fish so i go out of my way to ensure they are at their tip top condition

 

[KathyM]

Hi mrs_darlington

I've had a read of your other threads, and given the tank size I wouldn't really recommend 2 pairs of Rams. I know what you're thinking, they're not big, but they sure as hell are territorial, and they also like a fair bit of space in my experience. The information on them on here suggests 20g for minimum tank space for a Bolivian Ram, Cichlid Forum says 20g for a pair.

Hope that helps!