Question and my journey from a new comer

[Angrybeaver]

Let me start with my journey so far which hopefully isn't going to be too long of a read.

I recently was given a tank setup (though I didn't want one lol) that my family decided me to move forward with. It is a 75g tank with stand and came with a ecco comfort 3, a busted air pump, and a Hyder 250w inline heater.

This thing was never maintained for years and years. It ended up being a home for a massive plecosumus that died last year due to loss in power and freezing temps. So knowing all this... I pulled it all apart (first dumb thing I did) and cleaned all thr media and pump with a small dilution of dawn... this did get everything clean, but I have sense learned killed off any good bacteria.

From there I took a razorblade to the tank to remove all the crud added back all the parts and filled it up and added a pretty good amount of white vinegar and let it run for 48 hrs. After that I removed all the water, added enough to run the filter and let it run another 12 hrs or so while also giving the inside glass another scrub. After the 12 hrs I did one more final fill to about 3/4 and ran for another 12 hrs. I figured this would remove all the dawn and Vinegar used for cleaning.

So after that process I filled it up, treated the water to remove chlorine/chloramines, and let the temp warm up to 78F.

Oh I forgot to mention that I tossed the substrate and all but one tank decoration. So my next trip was to the local fish store for substrate, decorations, a new air pump, etc. While there I decided to get 3 glofish tetras to start the cycling process (before I knew about fishless).

From here I kept dosing my tank with seachem stability as directed and at no point in about 5 days did I see ammonia climb, so more reading made me think I needed a few more fish for my size tank... now we are sitting at 7 glofish tetras.

Now the second batch of fish came from a big box and one died the first night and the replacement I think gave my tank ich... so coppersafe has been dosed to directions since and I am hoping to see all spots go away in the next few weeks.

Now I am sitting at maybe 12-13 days from start. I check my levels daily and still do not see any measurable levels of ammonia. Nitrite, or nitrate.. I have to go off the seachem badge for ammonia since copper throws off the api test for it. My copper appears to be holding at a therapeutic range.

So now for my questions.

I know the cycle takes time and I am not really concerned here, but I am curious why I am not even seeing ammonia in this amount of time.

Second, my canister filter does no appear to be strong enough for this tank. So I am looking at recommendations. Everyone keeps talking about the 4+ turnover rate minimum and I think my current one is lucky if it does over 1 per hr.

I have been looking at the eheim offerings, but I am not seeing many that seem to push enough flow. I looked at the fluval 407, but although it has enough media to handle the amount of water in the tank.. the flow rate after media is added will come out to probably 2.5 turn overs per hr. My last look has been at the aquael ultramax 2000 which while it says it can do 2000l/hr it seems that people who have tested with media see it actually move 880-1000l/hr which is 230-265ish gpm or 3 - 3.5 turnovers per hour.

So at this point I know I need a better filter, but am stuck on what to consider next. I don't want to spend a fortune on a huge overkill unit, but I also don't mind spending some money to get the job done correctly.

 

[Rocky998]

Ok, you NEVER EVER use soap on aquariums... even the smallest amount in a closed ecosystem can and will kill any fish... So you will have to change out anything you used soap on sadly... For a fish-in cycle (not the recommended method) you will HAVE to do daily 50-75% water changes. For a big tank thats going to be a pain in the butt.... But im sure youll get through this! There are also others on here who know more than me who could probably help you more!

 

[Angrybeaver]

Ok, you NEVER EVER use soap on aquariums... even the smallest amount in a closed ecosystem can and will kill any fish... So you will have to change out anything you used soap on sadly... For a fish-in cycle (not the recommended method) you will HAVE to do daily 50-75% water changes. For a big tank thats going to be a pain in the butt.... But im sure youll get through this! There are also others on here who know more than me who could probably help you more!

The part that did get the soap has been flushed thoroughly and after almost 2 weeks my fish haven't shown and signs of stress.

As for the water changes. I picked a pretty hardy fish and I am not seeing any ammonium, nitrite, or nitrate yet. So I thought water changes should only be done when trying to remove high levels of those 3 substances during the cycle process.

Too many changes can reset or severely slow the cycle (from what I have read) and it most certainly will make keeping my copper level that therapeutic levels a major chore.

The chemistry isn't really an issue for me... having a pool really gets you use to that side or things. For me though my major concern is having enough filtration and flow.

It looks like most places recommend an ACTUAL flow of about 375gph for a 75 gallon tank which is about 5 turn overs... but even something that claims 2000l/hr in real world use only does about half that. I mean I guess I could toss on a HOB unit to get me there, but really was hoping for a single canister solution (though redundancy is always nice)

 

[Byron]

There are a lot of issues/questions here, I will comment on a couple of them. First, the filter...this should be based upon the intended fish for this tank. Filtration is often misunderstood; any filter will generally deal with the biological aspect, within reason, and even if there is no filter the nitrifying bacteria will still appear and multiply to deal with the ammonia. Live plants really make this easy...are these in the picture? Even some good floating plants will really benefit not only the water quality but the light which impacts fish. But the prime benefit of the filter is water movement; some fish must have strong currents, some fish as close to calm water as possible while still having a flow throughout the tank. So before looking at filters, what are the intended fish, and are plants intended?

A quick comment on the fish/cycling issue. In a tank this large (volume), three or now six small fish will not (or should not) have any issues as the cycle establishes. You are lucky with the volume; the real cycling problems are almost always the small tanks (10g, 20g) into which beginners put way too many fish. I'm not suggesting one should deliberately put fish in the tank and hope for the best, just that you should be OK but don't add more fish. Floating plants would be ideal, as they quickly assimilate the ammonia (they are faster than the bacteria at this) and do not produce nitrite (and then nitrate) as well.

 

[NannaLou]

@Angrybeaver Have you got any live plants in the aquarium..?

 

[FishNturt808]

I run a sun sun hw-304b, aquaclear 90 hob, and a large sponge filter in my 75. If you can find the 304b it’s a solid unit for a very reasonable price. Doesn’t have any flow adjustments would be my only complaint.

In regards to the dawn usage, I mean, they use it on baby ducks right? but definitely could have killed the fish. I would think all the vinegar and flushes could have cleared all the residue, but I wouldn’t do that again, and definitely would be more inclined to replace what was ‘dawned’.

 

[Rocky998]

The part that did get the soap has been flushed thoroughly and after almost 2 weeks my fish haven't shown and signs of stress.

As for the water changes. I picked a pretty hardy fish and I am not seeing any ammonium, nitrite, or nitrate yet. So I thought water changes should only be done when trying to remove high levels of those 3 substances during the cycle process.

Too many changes can reset or severely slow the cycle (from what I have read) and it most certainly will make keeping my copper level that therapeutic levels a major chore.

The chemistry isn't really an issue for me... having a pool really gets you use to that side or things. For me though my major concern is having enough filtration and flow.

It looks like most places recommend an ACTUAL flow of about 375gph for a 75 gallon tank which is about 5 turn overs... but even something that claims 2000l/hr in real world use only does about half that. I mean I guess I could toss on a HOB unit to get me there, but really was hoping for a single canister solution (though redundancy is always nice)

Sounds like you did your research... Glad to hear the fish are doing well. Just keep up with water changes. The point of the cycle is to make enough nitrites to eat the ammonia and make enough nitrate to eat the nitrites... My cycling tank is almost complete... It has about 2 more weeks left

 

[Rocky998]

Also, like @NannaLou asked... Do you have any plants? Fast growing plants will help the cycle along.

 

[Angrybeaver]

I do not have any live plants currently. I might add them down the line, but as of now I am trying to just stick with the fish until I know my tank is established.

I was late on doing research and could have saved myself the trouble if I decided to do all of this BEFORE I took ownership of the tank

 

[Rocky998]

I do not have any live plants currently. I might add them down the line, but as of now I am trying to just stick with the fish until I know my tank is established.

I was late on doing research and could have saved myself the trouble if I decided to do all of this BEFORE I took ownership of the tank

Well you dont have to be a genious to do plants (most are super easy). Try doing floater plants like red root floaters or frogbit... Those are literally the easiest of fast growing plants... There is also hornwort that floats and can be planted in the substrate (I dont like the floating hornwort look)

 

[Angrybeaver]

Well you dont have to be a genious to do plants (most are super easy). Try doing floater plants like red root floaters or frogbit... Those are literally the easiest of fast growing plants... There is also hornwort that floats and can be planted in the substrate (I dont like the floating hornwort look)

I guess my hesitation with floaters is blocking the light and making it harder to break surface tension without killing the plants. The point of glofish was so my kids could watch them glow lol.

 

[Rocky998]

I guess my hesitation with floaters is blocking the light and making it harder to break surface tension without killing the plants. The point of glofish was so my kids could watch them glow lol.

True... I forgot about them being glow fish... You could make a floating plant corral with some airline tubing and connectors (super cheap). That way light can still get through but the floating plants can do what they do...

 

[NannaLou]

Sounds like you did your research... Glad to hear the fish are doing well. Just keep up with water changes. The point of the cycle is to make enough nitrites to eat the ammonia and make enough nitrate to eat the nitrites... My cycling tank is almost complete... It has about 2 more weeks left

I’m not certain that that is how the Nitrogen cycle works…. My understanding is that you grow one set of bacteria to break down the Ammonia and the result of that action is Nitrites. A second set of bacteria break down the Nitrites to give Nitrate and that is removed by water changes and some emergent plants consume Nitrate (pathos, peace lily, bamboo…). @Essjay will be able to confirm this for me.

I don’t know about glow fish, but I have learnt recently that lots of other fish really colour up when they are in planted tanks as they feel more secure…might be worth a bit of reading and see if that theory will follow through to glow fish..

 

[Angrybeaver]

True... I forgot about them being glow fish... You could make a floating plant corral with some airline tubing and connectors (super cheap). That way light can still get through but the floating plants can do what they do...

Is there a point to plants if you are trying to develope the anaerobic bacteria I keep hearing about that eats the nitrates and turns it into nitrogen gas which just exchanges when air does. Looks like you need a big filter with plenty of flow for this though along with something like biohome ultimate which can support it (5lbs is about $100)

This might just be snake oil that is floating around this community, but if it is actually a viable option then outside of looks and preference is there much reason to go live plants?

 

[Angrybeaver]

I’m not certain that that is how the Nitrogen cycle works…. My understanding is that you grow one set of bacteria to break down the Ammonia and the result of that action is Nitrites. A second set of bacteria break down the Nitrites to give Nitrate and that is removed by water changes and some emergent plants consume Nitrate (pathos, peace lily, bamboo…). @Essjay will be able to confirm this for me.

I don’t know about glow fish, but I have learnt recently that lots of other fish really colour up when they are in planted tanks as they feel more secure…might be worth a bit of reading and see if that theory will follow through to glow fish..

I think he just worded it differently. Than you were use to. So it isn't the nitrites that actually eat ammonia, but they are the byproduct of that process. The same goes for nitrates to nitrites.

Then you have this new concept I keep hearing about which is anaerobic bacteria converting nitrates to nitrogen which then leaves your ecosystem as air exchanges