question about salt

[gaya]

hello all,

I have heard how salt can be very bad for certain fish. Does anyone know what exactly happens when a fish who can not tolerate salt is exposed to it?
thanks
gi

 

[Teelie]

Usually it burns their skin or gills.

 

[Melfice]

Usually it burns their skin or gills.

Yep. Cory Cats don't like salt at all I hear (most cat fish don't).

 

[Tempestuousfury]

The fish who are hurt most commonly are corydoras and other "naked"
catfish. I believe eels and the like also have problems (just inference, I have no idea).

 

[Bignose]

Some tetras and discus can be very intolerent of salt. Basically, any fish whose native waters is very low in hardness would most likely have a hard time with salt.

 

[Inchworm]

The problem with using salt with cory cats is not that it burns them. Actually it can come in handy as a medication at times.

The real trouble comes with longer term usage of it in aquariums. The fish absorb their water through their skin and the salt with it. Since corys originate in water that is salt free, their systems cannot eliminate it properly and it puts a strain on their livers and kidneys. This could result in shortening their lifespan considerably.

 

[Teelie]

Contrary to belief, Cories aren't harmed by salt, though too much can be dangerous, it's no more than other freshwater fish. I'm not sure how that mistake propagated.

 

[CFC]

The best way to think of salt for fish is to compare it to alcohol for humans.

A little salt can be very benefitial and its occasional sensible use can do wonders for some fish, as can the occasional glass of wine or beer for people. Prolonged use of salt cause's problems with the kidneys as the fish which have evolved with no measurable salt content in their water (ie those from the amazon basin) have no way of passing these salts back out of their system, the salt accumilates in the kidneys and the eventual outcome is kidney failure and premature death.

Personally i only use salt for brackish/marine aquariums, all my freshwater fish are T totallers.

 

[astroboy]

Contrary to belief, Cories aren't harmed by salt, though too much can be dangerous, it's no more than other freshwater fish. I'm not sure how that mistake propagated.

The real trouble comes with longer term usage of it in aquariums

Totally agreed. Short term exposure to cure corys and scaleless fish will not hurt them, although long term exposure (ex. adding salt with ever water change) is not recommended. Another myth that is unknowingly spread around by numerous aquarists.

As for fishy cycling (specifically high nitrites), salt in small amounts (1/4-1/2 teaspoons/gallon) will greatly benefit your fish (counteracts the effects of nitrites).

 

[Inchworm]

....As for fishy cycling (specifically high nitrites), salt in small amounts (1/4-1/2 teaspoons/gallon) will greatly benefit your fish (counteracts the effects of nitrites).

Hi astroboy

That's another myth.

There is no need to add salt to a cycling tank. The best way to control nitrites at this time, and to be kind to the fish, is by doing frequent water changes to keep the nitrite level very low.

This will slow the cycle, but not stop it. A long slow cycle will cause little or no harm to the fish, but trying to rush it by doing inadequate water changes will. Since fish need clean and healthy conditions more than they need beneficial bacteria, the best way for them to have those conditions is by changing water often.

 

[gaya]

I only add salt if I see something funny going on, like if one of them is scratching against something or at one point when they were kicking each other's a**es and started to look a bit beat up. I saw some scratching the other day so I got worried and have been adding a tbsp per 5g a day and raise temp a degree a day. They have stopped scratching but I'm sure if ick is in there it's not killed. I have had problems with ick on and off in two of my tanks. I have never had a total crazy break out (only my quarnatine tank and I posted a thread about it). i hate to use meds with my 29g cuz it's planted. I know that plants don't like salt either. I do have aqua-sol that I may end up using when I stop the salt treatment. Has anyone actually pysically seen a salt burn on a fish? I'm concerned about my plecos mostly. Are they super sensitive to salt?

 

[astroboy]

Hi astroboy 

That's another myth. 

There is no need to add salt to a cycling tank. The best way to control nitrites at this time, and to be kind to the fish, is by doing frequent water changes to keep the nitrite level very low.

This will slow the cycle, but not stop it. A long slow cycle will cause little or no harm to the fish, but trying to rush it by doing inadequate water changes will. Since fish need clean and healthy conditions more than they need beneficial bacteria, the best way for them to have those conditions is by changing water often.

ahhh, dammit, theres so many opposing views i don't know what to think. But, i was told that by a very experienced fishkeeper whom i trust (but that doesn't make him right). Theres only one way to figure out.

Buy a laboratory and conduct my own controlled experiments. (yeah right).

Just curious what you evidence/reasoning behind that is though.

 

[Inchworm]

...Just curious what you evidence/reasoning behind that is though.

Hi astroboy

Why does anyone cycle a tank anyway? To cultivate beneficial bacteria, right? And why do you need beneficial bacteria? The answer to that is because they remove ammonia (and then nitrites) which are caused by having fish living in the water. Ammonia and nitrites are harmful to the fish so it's important that they are removed one way or another. Therefore, if you do enough water changes to remove these chemicals, you don't need bacteria to do the job.

The problem comes about if you are doing water changes manually. If you stop doing it for a few days and there are no bacteria to help out, the level builds up quickly and hurts the fish. It's safer, by far, to have the bacteria to fall back on if an emergency comes up, or just for your convenience, so it's best to let the tank cycle.

The first bacteria enter the tank through the air and only need a little ammonia to live on. As they grow they reproduce faster or slower depending on the amount of food available to them. Depending on the amount of nitrites they produce, the next group of bacteria follow along.

So, if you can believe that ammonia will harm the fish, then my reasoning is that more ammonia will hurt them more than just a little. The same goes for nitrites. Therefore, a slow and controlled cycle which will allow bacteria to grow and reproduce slowly will be less damaging to the fish than a fast one which subjects them to a large amount of these chemicals.

I'm not too big on science and I'm sure that someone else can give you a more technical response than I can, but that's the reasoning I go by on the matter.

I hope this helps.

 

[Bignose]

Part of the reason salt sometimes works as a treatment is that is changes the environment, and while envinoment change stressed fish, it also streses everything in the tank, plants, bacteria, ick, anything alive. The good news is that the higher organisms are a little more adaptable, so while your fish will tolerate it for a while, the lower order organisms may not, and stress in this case equals death. Especially when the temp is changed, which is additional stress.

But, what I am getting to, is that changing the salt levels during your cycle changes the environment which may stress your good bacteria, actually making the time is takes to cycle your tank worse.

Well, maybe, I've only kept freshwater tanks, and with the exception of my very first one, have fishless cycled, but it seems like it may be a possiblity.

 

[cation]

So, now, wait a minute. Are you guys saying that low doses of salt, short term, are not harmful to cories (and/or plecos, I would assume)? I don't regularly use salt in my tanks, with the exception of the few unfiltered betta tanks I have left. However, I appreciate salt as a natural remedy to be used in certain cases. I have been hesitant to use any salt in tanks with cories, even in short term. I am not disagreeing with you - I just want to understand correctly - Salt is okay for them short-term medication in tanks with scaleless fish, but not as a prophylactic or regular addition?

That's good info if that's the case. I certainly won't use it all the time, but it would be nice to know that a pinch in the tank in the case of a bug won't hurt them.