Qs About Gbrs

[coldcazzie]

Well, I've decided I'd really like a pair of the gold rams I saw in the lfs last week and I know they are a colour morph of the GBRs.

Would I be ok to keep the tank temp at 27oC. I know they prefer 28-32, but I have loaches and will also have gouramis which prefer a temp of 23-26, so would a happy medium of 27 be alright for them?

Failing that, what temp do Bolivian Rams like (ie could I keep them in my tank which is currently 25-26), and are there any which are slightly more exciting colours than the standard - I think the normal coloured ones are pretty dull... (sorry if that offends anyone! )

Also, is there anything particularly I'd need to add to the tank to keep them happy? I have fake wood/plastic plants/real rocks at the mo, but will be rescaping in next few days to include real wood and live plants as well. I have a fake rock cave thing - would this be alright for them or should I also buy a couple of coconut caves or something?

I feed flake and pellets, and sinking tablets/pellets, and occasionally supplement with daphnia/bloodworms, do I need to add anything to the feeding rota?

Finally, I've skimmed through the threads for the past couple of months trying to find the best ways to sex them...

BRs: the vent on the female is pointed downwards rather than back
GBRs: the male's anal fin will be longer than the tail and the first couple of rays on the dorsal will be longer

have I got this right? Just want to make sure I definitely end up with a m/f pair and am not sure the lfs will get it right (although maybe I'm underestimating them!).

Thanks, and sorry for all the questions!

 

[ALW]

Would I be ok to keep the tank temp at 27oC. I know they prefer 28-32, but I have loaches and will also have gouramis which prefer a temp of 23-26, so would a happy medium of 27 be alright for them?

Failing that, what temp do Bolivian Rams like (ie could I keep them in my tank which is currently 25-26), and are there any which are slightly more exciting colours than the standard - I think the normal coloured ones are pretty dull... (sorry if that offends anyone! )

Also, is there anything particularly I'd need to add to the tank to keep them happy? I have fake wood/plastic plants/real rocks at the mo, but will be rescaping in next few days to include real wood and live plants as well. I have a fake rock cave thing - would this be alright for them or should I also buy a couple of coconut caves or something?

I feed flake and pellets, and sinking tablets/pellets, and occasionally supplement with daphnia/bloodworms, do I need to add anything to the feeding rota?

Finally, I've skimmed through the threads for the past couple of months trying to find the best ways to sex them...

BRs: the vent on the female is pointed downwards rather than back
GBRs: the male's anal fin will be longer than the tail and the first couple of rays on the dorsal will be longer

have I got this right? Just want to make sure I definitely end up with a m/f pair and am not sure the lfs will get it right (although maybe I'm underestimating them!).

Thanks, and sorry for all the questions!

1. I wouldn't keep GBR's any lower then 28c IMO.
2. Bolivians between 24-27c so yes they would be fine, sorry but they only come in the one colour.
3. Both are Substrate Spawners so caves arnt a must although bogwood helps.
4. Feeding sounds fine.
5. BRs Yes, GBRs Yes, Females have a pink belly

 

[coldcazzie]

1. I wouldn't keep GBR's any lower then 28c IMO.
2. Bolivians between 24-27c so yes they would be fine, sorry but they only come in the one colour.
3. Both are Substrate Spawners so caves arnt a must although bogwood helps.
4. Feeding sounds fine.
5. BRs Yes, GBRs Yes, Females have a pink belly

1. Right, in that case they are a no 27 is about the highest I could get away with I think.
2. Cool, but grrr!
3, 4 & 5. Excellent thanks!

Fingers crossed lfs has some bolivians in then...

PS: Thanks for replying!

 

[three-fingers]

I wrote this on rams: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?s=&amp...t&p=2455174.

 

[shane87]

the bolivian ram looks cool as with it dorsal fin stuck right up swimmin around the tank

 

[coldcazzie]

Ok, so having gone to the lfs, I spotted the golden rams and having decided defintely not I was looking for something else. They had no pearl gouramis in (which is what I really went to get), but I was determined to come home with fish...

There was another tank with rams in so I asked for a pair and I was so fixed on not getting the golden ones that I didn't realise until I was half way home that what I'd just bought were labelled "blue rams" and therefore probably the same species, just a different colour...

Plus, I think I've got a m/m pair.

Here's a pic - could someone confirm its a GBR please?

I feel like such a twit! If they are GBRs then I will take them back and go to P@H instead where I saw some bolivian rams yesterday.

*sigh*

 

[Curiosity101]

Yes they are german blue rams.

Here is my bolivian

Sometimes GBRs can be hard to tell from bolivians, IF the GBR is particularly stressed then the colours can become really washed out.
But the best way to distinguish is to note that GBRs have a red eye, bolivians have a gold one.

 

[coldcazzie]

Thanks I thought so

Have rung the shop, they are happy for me to take them back for a refund, esp as they've only been in QT not in my main tank.

*DUR!!!*

I'm such an idiot.

 

[Curiosity101]

Hehe, nevermind. Are you wanting a pair or a single fish?

I've read the only real way to get a mated pair is to get a small group (say 5) and grow them on together.

Through keeping these rams I have found

A) They're practically impossible to sex until they are at least 1.5" (4cm), and even then you can normally only tell the males. For the females more often than not you have to guess and then are hopefully correct cause she will lay eggs.

B) There are an unusually large proportion of males to females. I'm not sure if it's due to the species, perhaps in the wild more males get picked off? So the species has adapted for more fry to be male... I'm not sure. But I've found that females are hard to come by. A group of 5 is your best bet.

At the moment I have 2 rams in my 125, one is a mature mate and the second is an immature male (bought as 'the most female looking one in a group of 5! lol). They do co-exist, but the mature male will bully the younger one every now and then.

 

[ALW]

Yes that is a GBR ram. As said above you were right in the best way to sex Bolivians "BRs: the vent on the female is pointed downwards rather than back". As you can not 100% take the finage as some females have shown to have the tail extenions and others have the extended dorsal fins.

EDIT: On the other hand as Curiosity has already said Rams can be kept in groups, so that is another option

 

[Curiosity101]

I was suggesting she re-home the other 3 once she gets a pair. I don't reckon you would see as many 'natural' behaviours from a pair if they're sharing their territory with 3 others.

Also checking the vents is only particularly reliable by ACTUALLY venting them. IE. you get a male, flip him upside down and look at his vent from above. You then compare to the others. Females have a visibly larger vent when you look at them in this way.

Regular cichlid breeders wouldn't need to compare ofc, but as I'm not this is the way I'd do it.
But then having said all that, I don't think half the shops I go to would happily vent them for me...or even less let me do it.

 

[ALW]

Also checking the vents is only particularly reliable by ACTUALLY venting them. IE. you get a male, flip him upside down and look at his vent from above. You then compare to the others. Females have a visibly larger vent when you look at them in this way.

You dont have to touch the fish to sex it. It is visible if you look hard enough.

Male

Female

all credit for the picture goes to blairo1: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=142702

 

[Curiosity101]

It's not always reliable...do you not think I've looked at all the same sexing guides?

When I went to pick out my second ram I picked one that had as many female features as possible, including the vent pointing down, there wasn't even a slight point and it wasn't tapered towards the rear.

But as the ram has matured his vent has become significantly more pointed and is now pointing backwards.

Plus on top of that, the vent doesn't always protrude enough at the time of sexing to give a positive result.

Hence, proper venting, IE. upturned fish, is the only way to accurately sex them until they begin to mature (normally around the 1.5" mark)

 

[ALW]

Hence, proper venting, IE. upturned fish, is the only way to accurately sex them until they begin to mature (normally around the 1.5" mark)

Hey if you can sex a immature ram then i take my hat off to you. I was under the impression that it was commonly regarded that you cannot 100% sex them until they start to mature, as the sex organs are still developing and arnt fully visible. So if you can then well done

 

[Curiosity101]

I personally can't. Mainly cause they don't take kindly to you manhandling fish in the shop... And as I'm not a breeder then I've not seen enough vents to know which is male and which is female. But once you do know the difference (which is only clearly apparent from that angle), then you know if you have a male or a female.

Here is a link on venting cichlids... Venting link (note: don't look if you're easily...shocked)